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Formendacil · 05-22-2009, 08:18 PM

Why do I feel like I've just been left out of something major?

Well, basically because I haven't been on in 24 hours and a major storm blew over. I think I'll just sit here twitching for a bit, thank you.

Okay, I'm still very much twitching. Probably will be for a while yet. There is a major mental switch that needs to be thrown. In my personal case, I am not offended--but I didn't interact with you much beyond WW, I agree the Internet is a dangerous place, and I'm a rather forgiving sort (at least, I like to think I am).

That doesn't mean I'm not totally rocking back on my heels, trying to somehow find a steady rock here. As someone who essentially tries to put forward the same face on the Internet that he does with the family, at school, I'm perhaps a touch too trusting--not that I've been burned here so much as I've ordered my world to include an older Boromir who hangs out on the 'Downs, and my world needs a slight restructuring of its metaphysics. Why, an '88 kid means I'm older than you!

The fact, however, that I am either cool with this or forgiving (I'm honestly not sure which it is, but I lean to the latter), does not mean that I do not utterly and completely disagree with the idea that "it's only the internet, it doesn't matter that much."

Unfortunately (for you) by bringing this up, you've basically allowed me to trot out one of my favourite hobby-horses. In the Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle's seminal work on Ethics, the question of what constitutes friendship, and the relationship of friendship to the moral life, is a huge part of the book, and Aristotle seems to come to the conclusion that what is necessary for friendship, in its highest form, is the free exchange of ideas: the ability to bounce thoughts and reasonings and arguments back and forth--to get to know who another person IS.

Aristotle also seems to indicate that this isn't possible unless you spend time doing stuff with them. At this point, my professor was of the opinion that you CAN'T have real friendships online because you can't know if someone else is being genuine, that the invisible clues of body language and non-verbal communication are essential to KNOWING the person you're talking to, and that this knowledge is necessary in order to have a real friendship. My basic contention is that you may not KNOW if the other person is being honest, but you CAN share ideas freely, bounce contemplation back and forth, and invest copious amounts of time on the well-being of another online.

That is precisely why, for me, this really is a big deal; because I have done that. Here, on the Downs especially, I have made, I think, dozens of friends, and even--I dare say--two or three of my BEST friends, better friends than I've made in the three years now past of my undergrad studies, better friends than three years of living in community with people, better friends than growing up 19 years in a small town. Better friends, I emphasize, based entirely on the free exchange of thought and the investment of time on a wholly virtual medium.

Which is why this matters to me, and why I fully agree that Boromir needed to come clean. Because of the amount of time he has invested--that others have invested in him--in the people here, these relationships are simply too seriously NOT to correct. I agree, too, that this coming out ought to hurt somewhat, since it is, indeed, a serious breach of trust, given the intensity that these relationships can take on. And yes, it may take time to heal.

Personally, I didn't know the fake Boromir well enough to have been hurt, and despite that my world is shaken. I'm willing to agree that "to err is human, to forgive divine"--but I realise we're all human, so the first part may be all we can hope to do.

And... yeah... I'm kind of running out of steam. Still twitching a bit, but getting used to the idea. Mind full of random thoughts...

Yes, Agan, I wondered why Facebook had two new group requests in the same day.

Yes, I had no idea who this John guy was.

"Colour" is how you're SUPPOSED to spell, Alatar.

And I prefer Boromir to Kent. Boromir was a liar, but he was a likeable liar, and he was real; Kent was honest, but he was a façade. But I think I'm going to reconcile the mental problem with John.

Pleased to meet you, John.

~Signed confusedly, verbosely, preachily, and nonsensically,

Michael A. Joosten - Formendacil

05-22-2009, 08:18 PM	#44
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,309	Why do I feel like I've just been left out of something major? Well, basically because I haven't been on in 24 hours and a major storm blew over. I think I'll just sit here twitching for a bit, thank you. Okay, I'm still very much twitching. Probably will be for a while yet. There is a major mental switch that needs to be thrown. In my personal case, I am not offended--but I didn't interact with you much beyond WW, I agree the Internet is a dangerous place, and I'm a rather forgiving sort (at least, I like to think I am). That doesn't mean I'm not totally rocking back on my heels, trying to somehow find a steady rock here. As someone who essentially tries to put forward the same face on the Internet that he does with the family, at school, I'm perhaps a touch too trusting--not that I've been burned here so much as I've ordered my world to include an older Boromir who hangs out on the 'Downs, and my world needs a slight restructuring of its metaphysics. Why, an '88 kid means I'm older than you! The fact, however, that I am either cool with this or forgiving (I'm honestly not sure which it is, but I lean to the latter), does not mean that I do not utterly and completely disagree with the idea that "it's only the internet, it doesn't matter that much." Unfortunately (for you) by bringing this up, you've basically allowed me to trot out one of my favourite hobby-horses. In the Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle's seminal work on Ethics, the question of what constitutes friendship, and the relationship of friendship to the moral life, is a huge part of the book, and Aristotle seems to come to the conclusion that what is necessary for friendship, in its highest form, is the free exchange of ideas: the ability to bounce thoughts and reasonings and arguments back and forth--to get to know who another person IS. Aristotle also seems to indicate that this isn't possible unless you spend time doing stuff with them. At this point, my professor was of the opinion that you CAN'T have real friendships online because you can't know if someone else is being genuine, that the invisible clues of body language and non-verbal communication are essential to KNOWING the person you're talking to, and that this knowledge is necessary in order to have a real friendship. My basic contention is that you may not KNOW if the other person is being honest, but you CAN share ideas freely, bounce contemplation back and forth, and invest copious amounts of time on the well-being of another online. That is precisely why, for me, this really is a big deal; because I have done that. Here, on the Downs especially, I have made, I think, dozens of friends, and even--I dare say--two or three of my BEST friends, better friends than I've made in the three years now past of my undergrad studies, better friends than three years of living in community with people, better friends than growing up 19 years in a small town. Better friends, I emphasize, based entirely on the free exchange of thought and the investment of time on a wholly virtual medium. Which is why this matters to me, and why I fully agree that Boromir needed to come clean. Because of the amount of time he has invested--that others have invested in him--in the people here, these relationships are simply too seriously NOT to correct. I agree, too, that this coming out ought to hurt somewhat, since it is, indeed, a serious breach of trust, given the intensity that these relationships can take on. And yes, it may take time to heal. Personally, I didn't know the fake Boromir well enough to have been hurt, and despite that my world is shaken. I'm willing to agree that "to err is human, to forgive divine"--but I realise we're all human, so the first part may be all we can hope to do. And... yeah... I'm kind of running out of steam. Still twitching a bit, but getting used to the idea. Mind full of random thoughts... Yes, Agan, I wondered why Facebook had two new group requests in the same day. Yes, I had no idea who this John guy was. "Colour" is how you're SUPPOSED to spell, Alatar. And I prefer Boromir to Kent. Boromir was a liar, but he was a likeable liar, and he was real; Kent was honest, but he was a façade. But I think I'm going to reconcile the mental problem with John. Pleased to meet you, John. ~Signed confusedly, verbosely, preachily, and nonsensically, Michael A. Joosten - Formendacil __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.