[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Tar-Palantir:

This is flat out wrong.

No, it is not flat out wrong. I think that we're both wrong. It depends and varies in different cases. I know at least know two people who moved on and had started from alcohol. They do have different highs, and they do have drugs of choice, but sometimes it doesn't matter. Some people don't realize what they are getting into and have gone too far before they do. They just want it so bad they don't care what they do, as long as they get high. It may not have been like that for the people that you worked with, but were they alcoholics? If they were, then you really might not be dealing with the people that moved on from there and got hooked on something else. The people I know have gone past alcohol, past weed, and farther than that, and they still were not satisfied. It is sad and the saddest part was that they were never satisfied. Some drugs hit them hard and they preferred it, but still, they were dangerous and hard and they had gone a long way from alcohol before they got there. I think you get what I'm saying and I really don't want to talk about them anyomore. The point is that it varies, but the people I knew were never satisfied; they always had to go up a level, then after a while move on.

How far past? 1 day, 1 week, 60 years?

It depends. And I'm not saying that it is easy, I'm saying that once they willingly give it up, a great burden is lifted. It is always very hard to face your addiction to a drug after you have quit and you are offered it or even near it, as it can be tempting enough. I think that Gollum had it long enough to see what it had done to him and to know that he did not need it anymore, and that having friends was more important than the ring, and also, that he could not have both.

We'll forever disagree on this one Frodo.

Yes, we will. I don't think I'll ever change my mind on this, and I think that it is the same for you.

The Saucepan Man:

would she, under the Ring's influence, have become a Dark Power in her own right, or would she have been subordinated to Sauron's will?

Either way she would have fallen, but I think that it would be under her own right. I seem to have the impression that any great or powerful person who obtains the ring and is corrupted, will be under their own right as Sauron could not harness their power. I think it was said somewhere that Gandalf could have become worse than Sauron had he taken the ring (I think, but I'm not really sure). So it would be similar with Galadriel, but even if her will was weaker than Sauron's, her will still would be too great for Sauron to harness. I'm kind of shakey on this question.

I still think that Gollum would have led them to Shelob (or tried some other ploy to gain back the Ring) irrespective of Sam's actions.

Well, I still think he wouldn't. Looks like you got company Sam! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

dininziliel:

If a greater will was responsible for Bilbo finding and bearing the Ring, and subsequent bearers

Are you suggesting destiny or something else? It seems very interesting.

[ February 26, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]