[Findegil]

Can it be that this was the last post before the long silence?

Howsoever it should not be the last post in this thread. I will try to help out were Gondowe had a problem of laking time. Here you find his proposal as goog edited according to our rules as I could do it:

FG-T-24 Then spake Tuor, and Ulmo set power in his heart and majesty in his voice. ‘Behold, O father of the City of Stone, I am bidden by him who maketh deep music in the Abyss, and who knoweth the mind of Elves and Men, to say unto thee that the days of Release draw nigh. FG-T-24.1{There have come to the ears of Ulmo whispers of your dwelling and your hill of vigilance against the evil of {Melko}[Melkor], and he is glad: but his}His heart is wroth FG-T-24.2{and the hearts of the Valar are angered who sit in the mountains of Valinor and look upon the world from the peak of Taniquetil, }seeing the sorrow of the thraldom of the {Noldoli}[Elves] and the wanderings of Men; for {Melko}[Melkor] ringeth them in the Land of Shadows beyond {hills of iron}[Ered Wethrin]. FG-T-24.3{Therefore have}Have I been brought by a secret way to FG-T-24.4<QS77 {And he gave}give warning to {Turgon}you that the Curse of Mandos now hastened to its fulfilment, when all the works of the Noldor should perish> and bid you number your hosts and FG-T-24.5{prepare for battle, for the time is ripe.}’ FG-T-24.6<Q30 abandon Gondolin and lead {his}your people down Sirion>.' FG-T-24.7<Q30 Summons too should {he}Turgon send into the East and gather, if he might, Men (who were now multiplying and spreading on the earth) unto his banners; and for that task Tuor was most fit. 'Forget,' counselled Ulmo, 'the treachery of Uldor the accursed, and remember Hurin; for without mortal Men the Elves shall not prevail against the Balrogs and the Orcs.' Nor should the feud with the sons of Feanor be left unhealed; for this should be the last gathering of the hope of the {Gnomes}[Noldor], when every sword should count.>FG-T-24.8<Q30 A terrible and mortal strife he foretold, FG-T-24.9{but victory if Turgon would dare it,} the breaking of Morgoth’s power, and the healing of feuds, and friendship between Men and Elves, whereof the greatest good should come into the world{, and the servants of Morgoth trouble it no more}.>FG-T-24.91Thus <Q30 Tuor spoke the embassy of Ulmo FG-T-24.92<TO in the hearing of all>, and something of the power and majesty of the Lord of Waters his voice had caught, so that all folk looked in wonder on him, and doubted that this were a Man of mortal race as he declared.>FG-T-24.93<TO {Ulmo's cloak would vanish when Tuor spoke the message to Turgon}[And when he had spoken, the cloak of Ulmo vanished.]>
FG-T-25.3<QS77 Then Turgon pondered long the counsel of Ulmo, and there came into his mind the words that were spoken to him in Vinyamar: 'Love not too well the work of thy hands and the devices of thy heart; and remember that the true hope of the Noldor lieth in the West, and cometh from the Sea.' But Turgon was become proud, and Gondolin as beautiful as a memory of Elven Tirion, and he trusted still in its secret and impregnable strength, though even a Vala should gainsay it; and after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad the people of that city desired never again to mingle in the woes of Elves and Men without, nor to return through dread and danger into the West. Shut behind their pathless and enchanted hills they suffered none to enter, though he fled from Morgoth hate-pursued; and tidings of the lands beyond came to them faint and far, and they heeded them little. The spies of Angband sought for them in vain; and their dwelling was as a rumour, and secret that none could find.>
FG-T-25.7 Then said Turgon: ‘Every year at the lifting of winter have messengers repaired swiftly and by stealth down the river FG-T-26{that is called} Sirion to the coasts of the Great Sea, and there builded them boats whereto have swans and gulls been harnessed or the strong wings of the wind, and these have sought back beyond the moon and sun to Valinor; but the paths thereto are forgotten and the highways faded from the world, and the seas and mountains are about it, and they that sit within in mirth reck little of the dread of {Melko}[Morgoth] or the sorrow of the world, but hide their land and weave about it inaccessible magic, that no tidings of evil come ever to their ears. Nay, enough of my people have for years untold gone out to the wide waters never to return, but have perished in the deep places or wander now lost in the shadows that have no paths; and at the coming of next year no more shall fare to the sea, but rather will we trust to ourselves and our city for the warding off of {Melko}[Morgoth]; and thereto have the Valar been of scant help aforetime.’

Then Tuor's heart was heavy, and Voronwë wept; and Tuor sat by the great fountain of the king and its splashing recalled the music of the waves, and his soul was troubled by the conches of Ulmo and he would return down the waters of Sirion to the sea.
FG-T-26.3<Q30 {thougt}However some there were of his wisest counselors who were filled with disquiet>, FG-T-26.5<Q77{but} and in the warning of the Vala Turgon heard again the words that were spoken before the departing Noldor on the coast of Araman long ago; and the fear of treason was wakened in Turgon's heart. Therefore FG-T-26.7[ later] in that time the very entrance to the hidden door in the Encircling Mountains was caused to be blocked up; and thereafter none went ever forth from Gondolin on any errand of peace or war, while that city stood.
But Turgon, who knew that Tuor, mortal as he was, had the favour of the Valar, marking his stout glance and the power of his voice sent to him and bade him dwell in Gondolin and be in his favour, and abide even within the royal halls if he would, FG-TG-01<GA for Tuor was held in honour, for his kindreds sake>. Then Tuor, for he was weary, and that place was fair, said yea; and hence cometh the abiding of Tuor in Gondolin.

I did only correct garmatical issues were I was sure that they had no meaning. In addition I added some Editing markers to make the discussion easier. Which I like to start right now:

FG-T-24.1, FG-T-24.2: I understand this changes to mean that Ulmo is only speaking for himself and not making any statemants about the other Valar. That is okay for me as it can be read out of Ulmos words an Vinyamar that he does work on his own an against their counsel.

FG-T-24.3: I don't understand this change, and it leaves the sentence very ungramatical. I suppose to leave the start of this sentence as it is, since it does still fit the rest of our edited text nicely.

FG-T-24.4: I can see why this is wished for and since we have no better source Sil77 is okay here.

FG-T-24.5: I see no reason to eliminate this, especially when FG-T-24.7 is kept.

FG-T-24.9: Okay, this must go if Turgon is not bidden to wage war immedatley.

FG-T-24.93: That is a smart placement, as it would allow us to say all the rest of the conversation is not Ulmo speaking through Tour to Turgon, but Tuor himself trying to persue Turgon at least to do part of Ulmos biding as he understood it.

FG-T-25 This was the passage of direct speech taken from LT, which must be skipt because it speaks of a war at hand not in the far future.

FG-T-25.3: This is a long passage from Sil77. For some parts of it we have the source information and should use these sources instaed and only add what is found exclusivly in Sil77 under that label. I will prepare that for my next draft.

FG-T-25.7: I find here is somthing missing. Why should Turgon speak about his messagers, if he was not bidden to send new once? Either we have to skip more of his answer or we have to introduce Tuor's biding to send new messengers.

FG-T-26.3 to FG-T-26.7: This is put together nicely, but it is picking up phrases here and there yust to get a text done. I think if we have to make it more simple. Even so I understand that it is better to take it up earlier then we did before in FG-TG-01.5. Especially FG-T-26.2 is not necessary at all. The phrase 'in that time' is vague enough to allow us to use the sentence at any place in the discussion between Tuor and Turgon.

That would bring the section to tjis form:

FG-T-24 Then spake Tuor, and Ulmo set power in his heart and majesty in his voice. ‘Behold, O father of the City of Stone, I am bidden by him who maketh deep music in the Abyss, and who knoweth the mind of Elves and Men, to say unto thee that the days of Release draw nigh. FG-T-24.1{There have come to the ears of Ulmo whispers of your dwelling and your hill of vigilance against the evil of {Melko}[Melkor], and he is glad: but his}His heart is wroth FG-T-24.2{and the hearts of the Valar are angered who sit in the mountains of Valinor and look upon the world from the peak of Taniquetil, }seeing the sorrow of the thraldom of the {Noldoli}[Elves] and the wanderings of Men; for {Melko}[Melkor] ringeth them in the Land of Shadows beyond {hills of iron}[Ered Wethrin]. FG-T-24.3 Therefore have I been brought by a secret way to FG-T-24.4<QS77 {And he gave}give warning to {Turgon}you that the Curse of Mandos now hastened to its fulfilment, when all the works of the Noldor should perish> and bid you number your hosts and FG-T-24.5 prepare for battle, {for the time is ripe.'} FG-T-24.6<Q30 abandon Gondolin and lead {his}your people down Sirion>.' FG-T-24.7<QS30 Summons too should {he}Turgon send into the East and gather, if he might, Men (who were now multiplying and spreading on the earth) unto his banners; and for that task Tuor was most fit. 'Forget,' counselled Ulmo, 'the treachery of Uldor the accursed, and remember Hurin; for without mortal Men the Elves shall not prevail against the Balrogs and the Orcs.' Nor should the feud with the sons of Feanor be left unhealed; for this should be the last gathering of the hope of the {Gnomes}[Noldor], when every sword should count.>FG-T-24.8<QS30 A terrible and mortal strife he foretold, FG-T-24.9{but victory if Turgon would dare it,} the breaking of Morgoth’s power, and the healing of feuds, and friendship between Men and Elves, whereof the greatest good should come into the world{, and the servants of Morgoth trouble it no more}.>FG-T-24.91Thus <QS30 Tuor spoke the embassy of Ulmo FG-T-24.92<TO in the hearing of all>, and something of the power and majesty of the Lord of Waters his voice had caught, so that all folk looked in wonder on him, and doubted that this were a Man of mortal race as he declared.>FG-T-24.93<TO {Ulmo's cloak would vanish when Tuor spoke the message to Turgon}[And when he had spoken, the cloak of Ulmo vanished.]>
FG-T-25.3<QS77 Then Turgon pondered long the counsel of Ulmo, and there came into his mind the words that were spoken to him in Vinyamar: 'Love not too well the work of thy hands and the devices of thy heart; and remember that the true hope of the Noldor lieth in the West, and cometh from the Sea.'> FG-T-25.31<QS30 But proud was Turgon become, and Gondolin as beautiful as a memory {Tun}[Tirion], and he trusted still in its secret and impregnable strength FG-T-25.32<QS77 , though even a Vala should gainsay it; and after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad>{so that} heand the most part of his folk wished not to imperil it nor leave it, and they desired not to mingle in the woes of Elves and Men without; nor did they any longer desire to return through dread and danger to the West.>FG-T-26.5<QS77{but}But in the warning of the Vala Turgon heard again the words that were spoken before the departing Noldor on the coast of Araman long ago; and the fear of treason was wakened in Turgon's heart. Therefore FG-T-26.7 in that time the very entrance to the hidden door in the Encircling Mountains was caused to be blocked up; and thereafter none went ever forth from Gondolin on any errand of peace or war, while that city stood. FG-T-25.33<QS77 Shut behind their pathless and enchanted hills they suffered none to enter, though he fled from Morgoth hate-pursued; and tidings of the lands beyond came to them faint and far, and they heeded them little. The spies of Angband sought for them in vain; and their dwelling was as a rumour, and secret that none could find.>
FG-T-25.34<QS30 Meglin spoke ever against Tuor in the councils of the king, and his words seemed the more weighty in that they went with Turgon's heart. Wherefore Turgon rejected the bidding of Ulmo; though some there were of his wisest counsellors who were filled with disquiet. Wise-hearted even beyond the measure of the daughters of Elfinesse was the daughter of the king, and she spoke ever for Tuor, though it did not avail, and her heart was heavy. Very fair and tall was she, well nigh of warrior's stature, and her hair was a fountain of gold. Idril was she named, and called Celebrindal, Silver-foot, for the whiteness of her foot; and she walked and danced ever unshod in the white ways and green lawns of Gondolin.>
FG-T-25.5 But Turgon said that he was king of Gondolin and no will should force him against his counsel to emperil the dear labour of long FG-T-25.53{ages}[years] gone; but Tuor said, for thus was he bidden by Ulmo who had feared the reluctance of Turgon: ‘Then am I bidden to say that men of the {Gondothlim}[Gondolindrim] repair swiftly and secretly down the river Sirion to the sea, and there build them boats and go seek back to Valinor: lo! the paths thereto are forgotten and the highways faded from the world, and the seas and mountains are about it, yet still dwell there the Elves on the hill of {Kôr}[Tuna] and the {Gods}[Valar] sit in Valinor, though their mirth is minished for sorrow{ and fear of Melko}, and they hide their land and weave about it inaccessible magic that no evil come to its shores. Yet still might thy messengers win there and turn their hearts that they rise in wrath and smite {Melko}[Melkor], and destroy the Hells of Iron that he has wrought beneath the Mountains of Darkness.’
FG-T-25.7Then said Turgon: ‘Every year at the lifting of winter have messengers repaired swiftly and by stealth down the river FG-T-26{that is called} Sirion to the coasts of the Great Sea, and there builded them boats whereto have swans and gulls been harnessed or the strong wings of the wind, and these have sought back beyond the moon and sun to Valinor; but the paths thereto are forgotten and the highways faded from the world, and the seas and mountains are about it, and they that sit within in mirth reck little of the dread of {Melko}[Morgoth] or the sorrow of the world, but hide their land and weave about it inaccessible magic, that no tidings of evil come ever to their ears. Nay, enough of my people have for years untold gone out to the wide waters never to return, but have perished in the deep places or wander now lost in the shadows that have no paths; and at the coming of next year no more shall fare to the sea, but rather will we trust to ourselves and our city for the warding off of {Melko}[Morgoth]; and thereto have the Valar been of scant help aforetime.’

Then Tuor's heart was heavy, and Voronwë wept; and Tuor sat by the great fountain of the king and its splashing recalled the music of the waves, and his soul was troubled by the conches of Ulmo and he would return down the waters of Sirion to the sea. But Turgon, who knew that Tuor, mortal as he was, had the favour of the Valar, marking his stout glance and the power of his voice sent to him and bade him dwell in Gondolin and be in his favour, and abide even within the royal halls if he would, FG-TG-01<GA for Tuor was held in honour, for his kindreds sake>.
Then Tuor, for he was weary, and that place was fair, said yea; and hence cometh the abiding of Tuor in Gondolin.

Respectfuly
Findegil