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Old 08-16-2017, 11:43 PM   #107
ArcusCalion
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Silmaril Some Thoughts

Hi all! This is my first post here, and I know I am quiiiite a bit late to the party! That being said, I just want to say, I am absolutely floored by the work that's been done on this chapter in particular, as out of the confusion and chaos has been created a flowing narrative that tells a compelling and vastly improved version of the story in the QS77.

My humble thoughts are almost certainly unwarranted, but I did have a few of them while reading through the text. Most of them are in regards to specific deletions or changes in the texts, as every story decision makes 100% sense to me.

The first one is a relatively minor point, as I assume it is a simple slip.

Quote:
RD-EX-24 TN Then, remembering the wisdom of {Gwenniel}[Melian] his wife, the king was minded to hearken, and he bade gather it up and cast it into the stream before the gates. Yet even so he might not shake off its spell, and he said to himself: ‘First will I gaze my last upon its loveliness ere I fling it from me for ever.’ Therefore he let wash it clean of its stains of blood in clear waters, and display it before him. Now such mighty heaps of gold have never since been gathered in one place;
At that point, the version where the outlaws are killed has been rejected, so the gold would have no blood on it.

The second is also a minor point where I was confused:

Quote:
RD-EX-31 <QS77 In those days the Dwarves still came on their journeys into Beleriand from their mansions in Ered Lindon, and passing over {Gelion}[Duin Daer] at {Sarn }Athrad[ Daer], the [Great ]Ford{ of Stones}, they travelled the ancient road to Doriath; for their skill in the working of metal and stone was very great, and there was much need of their craft in the halls of Menegroth. But they came now no longer in small parties as aforetime, but in great companies well armed for their protection in the perilous lands between Aros and {Gelion}[Duin Daer] RD-EX-32 {; and they dwelt in Menegroth at such times in chambers and smithies set apart for them}. At that{ very} time great craftsmen of Nogrod RD-EX-33 {were lately come}came into Doriath{; and}[ at] the King’s { therefore summoning them } summons, and he declared to them his desire>.
why are the Dwarves changed from being there to being summoned?

The next point is a very minor instance of awkward phrasing:

Quote:
RD-EX-39 <TN Now {come}came the Dwarves{ nonetheless over the bridge and} before the chair of {Tinwelint}[Thingol], and behold, the things of their workmanship they had conveyed thither in silken cloths, and boxes of rare woods carven cunningly. In other wise had {Úrin}[Húrin] haled the treasure thither{, and half thereof lay yet} in his rude sacks and clumsy chests; yet when the gold was once more revealed, then did a cry of wonder arise, for the things the {Nauglath}[Naugrim] had made were more wondrous>.
"were more wondrous" than what? the previous treasure? the use of the comparative "more" here implies a comparison, but none is given. Maybe, "more wondrous than had been thought."

The next is a simple question I had about a name deletion. I know that many of the hastily mentioned Elvish characters had their names removed bc of linguistic issues, but in this passage:

Quote:
RD-SL-19 <TN Now even as those aged ones sat in their dark halls and gnawed their beards, behold a sound of horns, and messengers were come from {Bodruith of the Indrafangs, a kindred of the Dwarves that dwelt in other realms}[Belegost].
why was Bodruith removed? Even if this name is not good Sindarin, it does not need to be. We know that the Dwarves took outer names in the language of the people near to their dwellings, and for Belegost this is Ossiriand, Celegrorm, and the lands of Eriador where Nandor and Men live. the name could easily be Nandorin, which would explain the phonetic similarity to Sindarin, while still allowing for an "impossible" Sindarin name form. To delete it anyway seems odd to me.

The next is a question regarding a theme in the Lost Tales that was abandoned largely in later writings:

Quote:
RD-EX-54 <TN This then was the design; and by his deeds have the Dwarves been severed in feud for ever since those days with the Elves, and drawn more nigh in friendship to the {kin}[following] of {Melko}[Morgoth].
Is this in keeping with Tolkien's later views on the Dwarves? I know some were considered evil, but Thorin dwelt in the Ered Luin near the ruins of Nogrod and Belegost, and these Dwarves were never remotely in league with the Orcs.

The next is a simple grammatical point:

Quote:
RD-EX-60 Now {is} [when] the king was far in the woods with all his company, and the horns {grow} [grew] faint in the deep forest, but {Gwendelin}[Melian] {sits} [sat] in her bower and foreboding {is} [was] in her heart and eyes.
the "when" in the first line is grammatically incorrect. Leaving it out fixes the sentence.

The next is a terminology that seems suspect to me in the context of the later legendarium:

Quote:
RD-EX-67 <TN {and Auredhir was} And [Eluréd and Elurín ]were most like to {his} [their] forefather Beren, and all loved {him} [them], yet none so dearly as did Dior; but Elwing the fairy have all poesies named as beautiful as Tinúviel if that indeed may be, yet hard is it to say seeing the great loveliness of the {elfin}[elven] folk of yore.>
I hardly think "Elwing the fairy" is fitting terminology for an Elf queen. Maybe Elwing the Fair?

The next is a minor question:

Quote:
RD-EX-79 <TN {But} [And] the waters of {Aros}[Ascar] flowed on {for ever} above the drowned hoard of {Glorund}[Glaurung]{, and so do still}, for in after days Dwarves came from Nogrod and sought for it, and for the body of Naugladur; but a flood arose from the mountains and therein the seekers perished; and so great now is the gloom and dread of {that Stony}[the Great] Ford that none seek the treasure that {it}[Ascar] guards [near by] nor dare ever to cross the{ magic} stream [of Duin Daer] at that enchanted place.
the last bit describes a present state, when by the third age Duin Daer is long gone and the ford lost beneath the waves, as Lindon is not all of Ossiriand, unless my geography is mistaken.

That was everything I saw, besides a few minor spelling mistakes. I'm honestly still blown away by the amount of work this took, and the cohesion and near perfection of the final product. This is truly a testament to the love people have for these stories.
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