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Old 03-21-2004, 07:32 PM   #16
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,139
Aiwendil has been trapped in the Barrow!
I am far from convinced that Gil-Galad must never go to Balar until after the attack of the Feanorians.

There are two things to consider: the fact of the change in his parentage and the note that makes him "king of the Noldor at the mouths of Sirion".

Does the change in parentage necessitate that he remained on the mainland until the third Kin-slaying? No. Certainly it makes obselete the passage where Fingon's "young son Gilgalad he sent to the Havens", but it clearly does not invalidate the story that he ended up at the havens somehow.

The note where he is the son of Fingon has him sent in 456, after the Dagor Bragollach. The question arises: if he is the son of Orodreth, when and how did he come to the havens? Was it still in 456? Was it later? Somehow he escaped the Battle of Tumhalad - and unless we intend to embark on some major creative rewriting of the Narn, he was not there at all during Turin's stay. That puts the date at 490 at the very latest. Of course, we will have to say at some point in the narrative that Gil-Galad was sent to the havens, so we will apparently have to decide upon some definite date - but there is nothing to suggest any specific time, with the only precedent the old date of 456.

But Cirdan went to Balar in 473, following an attack by Morgoth not long after the Nirnaeth. If Gil-Galad was with him at the havens before that time, he surely would have gone withe Cirdan to Balar. If he was not, then it's hard to imagine why Orodreth should send him to the havens later on, and not to join Cirdan on Balar.

Then there is the reference to his "eventually" becoming "King of the Noldor at the mouths of Sirion". Note first of all that this is in a note that is primarily concerned with his parentage and name, not with the specifics of his movements. In such a context "the Mouths of Sirion" could easily be a loose way of referring to the whole of the havens, the delta, and the Isle of Balar. Keep in mind that Cirdan is said to have maintained a foothold on the mainland even after removing to Balar. "King of the Noldor" could then be taken at face value - he inherited the title that had passed from Fingolfin to Fingon to Turgon.

I think that the whole argument for moving Gil-Galad from Balar to the mainland during the early parts of the story of Earendil rests on a very strict interpretation of "King of the Noldor at the mouths of Sirion", and I'm not convinced that that's enough.

How would we arrange it that Gil-Galad was not on Balar yet? We would have to invent some story whereby he either came to the havens after 473 or for some reason remained there after Cirdan. Either way, we would seem to have to take too much liberty.

I think it's safer to interpret the note more broadly, and retain both 456 as the date of his departure for the havens and the story that he went to Balar with Cirdan in 473.

Findegil wrote:
Quote:
About Amras: I think we should burn him with the ship (so to say).
I agree.

About the light-elves and the Quendi: I think that both should definitely stay.

About the Ingwiel/Ingwion/Finarfin passage: I don't think that there's any matter of the story in doubt here. As I understand it, the situation is this: in QS, it is said that Ingwiel was the chief of the host, but the wording was such that it appears that he is named the chief of the Noldor. In LQ, he corrected this by changing Ingwiel to Finarfin, so that it correctly names the chief of the Noldor. In the typescript, he apparently did not observe the error in wording, but made the unrelated correction Ingwiel > Ingwion. "Light-elves" was changed to "Fair-elves here because it refers specifically to the Vanyar.

So the story is the same in all versions: the overall leader of the host is the son of Ingwe, and the leader of the Noldorin troops is Finarfin.

I am not inclined to go with the typescript of LQ as the final version, since there is clearly an error there whereby Ingwion appears to become a Noldo. I am rather sympathetic to Petty Dwarf's inclination to include mention of both Ingwion and Finarfin - but unfortunately this results in awkward wording.

Last edited by Aiwendil; 05-28-2009 at 08:58 AM.
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