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Old 03-29-2004, 07:49 AM   #26
Seeker of the Straight Path
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Posts: 1,680
lindil has just left Hobbiton.
why should the kingship pass from Fingon to Turgon rather than from Fingon to Gil-Galad?
Well, for one Maedhros established a custom of it passing to the eldest male of the house of Finwe [outside of the Feanorians - it seems, though that detail may well not have been Maedhros' intent or understanding!]. So going to Turgon before going down a generation.

Re:The Second Prophecy, hmm, OK, I will go back and refresh that thread, if no one beats me to it. And speaking of old threads, where is the Orcish Fe:ar thread [started by H I or maybe Mithadan waaaay back?]

Re: Fingon as Dadddy - The big difference, which I tried to point out, is that with Finarfin being made ruler of the Noldor in Aman, there is an official notification from the Valar. With a change from Fingolfin's House to that of Finarfin's we have no text ever doing it [obviously not from the Valar, but within the Noldor themselves, as with Maedhros earlier], so while a concern over Gil-Galad as possibly being in Nargothrond during Turin's sojourn there is understandable, as there is no text or hint as to how JRRT would have handled it, why is that less toubling than a similarly textless shifting of the High Kingship from the second house to the third?

I just read the Second Prophecy from the 99 and I do not see that it needs to adress the possibility of the rulership passing to the 3rd House. With great gravity it dispossesses the House of Feanor, you are right A. that it does not in and of it self specify the 2nd House.

What is not silent I would argue, is the seriousness and gravity with which in the few occasions we see it, of the High-Kingship passing from anyone other than a son or nephew, is always noted, usually with great gravity and with some kind of council.

We see this in Valinor [twice with Fingolfin receiving 'rulership' when Finwe and Feanor where in Exile] and then again when the Valar 'set' Finarfin to Rule over the Noldor, and then finallly we see it in the council wherein Maedhros waives his claim.

So we can gloss over it, but if we do, we should not trouble too much over Gil-Galad somehow 'escaping' from the Sack of Nargothrond [though previously unmentioned there].

I really see the changing of houses as a big thing and a fully undocumented one that despite all of the time Gil-Galad may have spent as some descendant of Finarfin in JRRT's unfinished revisions and notes, the story is not set up to support it, or Gil-Galad in Nargothrond.

Of course, I seem to have something of a knack for minority positions so I will not try and hold things up.

A. glad you at least got a kick out of my Lay of Earendil theory. I thought it fit his character rather well...

Forgot about the X/MT reference.

Any other thoughts on possible inclusion of the fragments of the Lay of Earendil from II or LotR ?

I thought that would end up being a real brair patch, but maybe not...

The surrounding storyline might have a hard time adapting to much expansion, sense it is along with RoD, all very compressed and swift moving.

Still the troubles we run into here especially cause me to favor my 'Annotated Silmarillion' format more and more.
The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.
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