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Old 04-28-2004, 04:44 PM   #42
The Kinslayer
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Yet by Sirion and the sea there grew up an elven folk, the gleanings of Gondolin and Doriath[.]/*AB2 The Silmaril brought blessing upon them and*\ /*Elessar Idril wore the Elessar upon her breast*\/*AB2 , and they were healed, and they multiplied*\ /*QS77 ; and from Balar the mariners of Círdan came among them*\, and they took to the waves and {to the making of fair ships} /*QS77 the building of ships*\ /*AB2 and built a haven*\, dwelling ever nigh unto the shores /*QS77 of Arvernien*\, /*AB2 upon the delta amid the waters*\ under the shadow of Ulmo's hand. /*AB2 Many fugitives gathered unto them.*\*\
VE-02: I'm not sure that these additions are necessary/justified. Clearly the only reason for embellishing the paragraph found in Q would be for the sake of including greater detail; there is no canonical issue. That doesn't mean that we can't add the material, but we must weigh the value of the added detail against the motivation to preserve Tolkien's words as well as possible.
Do you mean all of the additions from QS77. I have been thinking a little about it, and I now believe that we should get rid of the Orni/Earni, because if we follow the later Ainulindalë and Valaquenta accounts, in those there is no mention of them (if I recall correctly). So it would be nice to have that part from QS77 when it is the mariners of Círdan that taught them how to build the ships.

VE-04: I don't think I see the justification for replacing the first clause of this paragraph with the QS77 version.
I think that you may be right, but CRT lines feels better IMO, and yes I know that should not be a factor in our decisions. The original clause would do just fine.

VE-05: It seems a little awkward to put the Lost Tales outline material here, immediately following the paragraph on Ulmo in Valinor. It seems to take us very abruptly from Valinor to the Havens. Maybe I'm over-analyzing though; it's possible that it only seems abrupt here since it is already obvious to us that the text is an addition from elsewhere.
Can you offer an alternative way?

VE-07: This sections's a bit choppy, but I suppose that's just a result of its origins in the Lost Tales outlines.
This, along with section VE-03 are still in the works but I rather like section VE-07. Can you offer an alternative to section VE-07. Also you forgot to mention about section VE-03.

VE-08: The reference to the slaying of Ungoliant must be removed.
But /*QS77 in after days it was sung that*\ Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and joined with the {Noldoli} [Noldor] whom he loved, and in after time dwelt still, or so it hath been said, ever upon his ship voyaging the seas of the Elven-lands, or resting a while in the harbours of the {Gnomes} [Elves] of Tol Eressëa; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men. Bright {Eärendel} [Eärendil] was then lord of the folk of Sirion and their many ships; and he took to wife Elwing the fair, and she bore him Elros and Elrond, who are called the Halfelven. Yet {Eärendel} [Eärendil] could not rest, and his voyages about the shores of the Hither Lands eased not his unquiet. Two purposes grew in his heart, blended as one in longing for the wide sea: he sought to sail thereon, seeking after Tuor and Idril Celebrindal who returned not; and he thought to find perhaps the last shore and bring ere he died the message of Elves and Men unto the Valar of the West, that should move the hearts of Valinor and the Elves of {Tûn} [Tirion] to pity on the world and the sorrows of Mankind.
Vingelot he built, fairest of the ships of song, the Foamflower; white were its timbers as the argent moon, golden were its oars, silver were its shrouds, its masts were crowned with jewels like stars. In the Lay of {Eärendel} [Eärendil] is many a thing sung of his adventures in the deep and in lands untrodden, and in many seas and many isles. {Ungoliantë in the South he slew, and her darkness was destroyed, and light came to many regions which had yet long been hid.} But Elwing sat sorrowing at home.
{Eärendel} [Eärendil] found not Tuor nor Idril, nor came he ever on that journey to the shores of Valinor, defeated by shadows and enchantment, driven by repelling winds, until in longing for Elwing he turned him homeward toward the East. And his heart bade him haste, for a sudden fear was fallen on him out of dreams, and the winds that before he had striven with might not now bear him back as swift as his desire.
I think it was an overlook only.

VE-11: It should be noted that toward the beginning of this section, with the words "And they looked upon the Lonely Isle" we switch from Q30 as the base text to QS37.

VE-14: We need to think about "Then he was bound with the chain Angainor, which he had worn aforetime". Are we going to follow the story found in MT where Morgoth falsely repented? The question of course does not really concern the Earendil chapter; it concerns "Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor", and whether it is to be considered merely a proposed change or whether it is one that we can legitimately work in.
I'm a little lost here, but wasn't Morgoth in the Q and QS chained?

VE-17: Why is "and the light before the Sun and the Moon" deleted?
Good point.

VE-18: I suppose that "{Gnomes} [Teleri]" here must be an error for "{Gnomes} [Noldor]".
An oversight to be sure.

VE-20: The insertions from MT do not work as written; they are in a suddenly very different, more colloquial, style. I'm not sure that they are really needed; they would only add detail; they do not establish a new story or correct an obselete point.
I can argue that we would have the same problem in the Fall of Gondolin with the later Tuor material and Tuor B. I don't see the harm in adding it, after all they are the words of JRRT, unlike in change VE-02. I thought that making a more "Complete Sil" was part of our purpose.

VE-21: We need to think about the second prophecy of Mandos. There is an old thread concerning it which might be revived.
It would be nice to retain it but alas, I see no way to do it as of now.

I want to bring up this:
And when they came into the West the {Gnomes} [Elves of Beleriand] for the most part rehabited the Lonely Isle, that looks both West and East; and that land became very fair, and so remains. But some returned even to Valinor, as all were free to do who willed; and there the {Gnomes} [Teleri] were admitted again to the love of Manwë and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest. <RGEO Yet in the case of Galadriel a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so. She passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion.>
I added the material from the RGEO in there. I think that although it is not ultimately necessary, I think it would add some detail in here, and because it comes from RGEO it is canonical too.
"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."
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