[Findegil]

As my proposal 1 Of Valinor and the Two Trees (unposted here since we wanted to check all chapters that we finished so far first) goes, it has lot repeating from The Ainulindale. The focus is changed a bit and therefore I found it bearable. In The Ainulindale the focus lies more on the Legend up to the War of the Lamps and the building of Valinor is only shortly mentioned, while in 1 Of Valinor and the Two Trees the Legend up to the War of Lampy is only recounted in short and the building of Valinor greatly expanded.

This looks okay for me if both The Ainulindale and Silmarillion are considered as single works. But if we take them as an entity it might be better to avoid any repeatition. The Only problem is that we have in our structure The Valaquenta in between. Therefore I agree that it is better to take up the full History of Arda into the Silmarillion if we want aviod repeatition.

The question is then were we make the split. Christopher Tolkien does make it at the begining of the words of Pengolodh. But to avoid repeatition completle this seems to late. I would make the split thus:

§23 So began their great labours in wastes unmeasured and unexplored, and in ages uncounted and forgotten, until in the Deeps of Time and in the midst of the vast halls of the Eä there came to be that hour and that place where was made the habitation of the Children of Ilúvatar. And in this work the chief part was taken by Manwë and Aulë and Ulmo. But Melkor, too, was there AINU-08.2{from the first}<soon>, and he meddled in all that was done, turning it, if he might, to his own desires and purposesAINU-08.3.{; and he kindled great fires. When therefore Earth was young and full of flame Melkor coveted it, and he said to the Valar: 'This shall be my own kingdom! And I name it unto myself!'
§24 But Manwë was the brother of Melkor ...
§25 But the Valar now took to themselves ...
§26 And behold! ...
§27 Thus began the first battle ...
§28 But of all such matters, ...

Here are the words of Pengoloð to Ælfwine

§29 And when he had ended the Ainulindalë, ...
§30 And Pengoloð answered: ...
§31 This tale {I have heard ...
§32 But at length Melkor returned in secret, ...
§33 Thus it was that the Earth lay darkling again, ...
§34 But in Valinor the Valar dwelt with all their kin and folk, ...
§35 And in the midst of the Blessed Realm ...
§36 But Manwë Súlimo, ...
§37 But Ulmo was alone, ...
§38 And in that time of dark ... and even the heart of Melkor himself was shaken, foreboding the wrath to come.}
§39 AINU-16 Now all is said{ to thee, Ælfwine, for this present,} concerning the manner of the Earth and its rulers in the time before days and ere the world became such as the Children have known it.{ Of these thou hast not asked, but a little I will say and so make an end.} For Elves and Men are the Children; and since they understood not fully that theme by which they entered into the Music, none of the Ainur dared to add anything to their fashion. For which reason the Valar are to these kindreds rather their elders and their chieftains than their masters; and if ever in their dealings with Elves and Men the Ainur have endeavoured to force them when they would not be guided, this has seldom turned to good, howsoever good the intent. The dealings of the Ainur have been mostly with the Elves, for Ilúvatar made the Eldar more like in nature to the Ainur, though less in might and stature, whereas to Men he gave strange gifts.
§40 For it is said that after the departure of the Valar there was silence and for an age Ilúvatar sat alone in thought. Then he spoke, and he said: 'Behold I love the Earth, which shall be a mansion for the Eldar and the Atani! But the Eldar shall be the fairest of all earthly creatures, and they shall have and shall conceive and bring forth more beauty than all my children; and they shall have the greater bliss in this world. But to the Atani (which are Men) I will give a new gift.'
§41 Therefore he willed that the hearts of Men should seek beyond the world and should find no rest therein; but they should have a virtue to shape their life, amid the powers and chances of the world, beyond the Music of the Ainur, which is as fate to all things else; and of their operation everything should be, in form and deed, completed, and the world fulfilled unto the last and smallest.
§42 But Ilúvatar knew that Men, being set amid the turmoils of the powers of the world, would stray often, and would not use their gifts in harmony; and he said: 'These too in their time shall find that all that they do redounds at the end only to the glory of my work.' Yet we of the Eldar believe that Men are often a grief to Manwë, who knows most of the mind of Ilúvatar. For it seems to us that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur, and yet he has ever feared and hated them, even those that served him.
It is one with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive, and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither we know not. Whereas the Eldar remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and poignant, therefore, and as the years lengthen ever more sorrowful. Memory is our burden. For the Eldar die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered in the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence often they return and are {reborn among their children}[reincarnated]. But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the World (it is said); wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers. Death is their fate, the gift of Ilúvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy. But Melkor has cast his shadow upon it, and confounded it with darkness, and brought forth evil out of good, and fear out of hope. Yet of old the Valar said unto us that Men shall join in the Second Music of the Ainur, whereas Ilúvatar has not revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World's end, and Melkor has not discovered it.

AINU-17 <End of the Ainulindalë {spoken}[written] by Rúmil {to Ælfwine}.>

Once we agree were we set the end of The Ainulindale I will try to make a proposal for the first chapter (or chapters) of The Silmarillon. I have the feeling that it might be neccessary to use the headline that Chirstofer Tolkien used in Sil77: Of the Beginning of Days to collect all the material that we have to transfer.

Respectfully
Findegil