The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Are There Any Valid Criticisms? (aka Kalessin's Rant)

littlemanpoet · 04-06-2002, 07:22 AM

I'm still trying to catch up to the current end of this dynamic thread, so bear with me, please, if this has already been covered.

Some of you have hinted at the problems with the publishing industry, but have not addressed it as it affects Kalessin's original question. The only reason LOTR got published at all was because Tolkien had already been successful with The Hobbit, which itself was published on a fluke of chance (See Humphrey Carpenter's biography to learn more.) and by then a relationship of mutual respect between publisher and author warranted the publishing of what was believed to be a sure loser in terms of marketability.

I said all that to say this: the publishing industry is by nature a conservative animal. It only works on the basis of sure bets. It was true in Tolkien's time, and is more true now because of the multiplied competing genres and technological forms. LOTR could not be published now, at all, unless by sheer fluke.

This points back to the "we're to blame" argument Kalessin put forth, which as he already admitted under the excellent reparte of Aiwendil, was simplistic. That which sells gets published. It sells because the buyers accept it and they accept the substandard rubbish because of other influences. The other influences are (this is not an exhaustive list):

1) Robert E Howard's Conan series (which in itself was quite good but not as good as Tolkien) as passed on to the modern fantasy lover's mind through the media of pulp novels, comic books and movies;

2) AD&D with its encyclopedic mish mash of monsters, spells, hero classes and what not, which has the mass market appeal of making everything accessible for one's own picking and choosing and thus reducing ALL fantasy to the lowest common denominator for those who don't know better;

3) the modern extra-terrestrial fantasy which may be arguably considered sci-fi but has essentially replaced trolls, goblins, elves, gods and goddesses as that which 'fires the imagination' - thus we have fantasies like ET and Star Wars and and Star Trek and X Files and Spielberg's latest, "AI";

4) the failure of modern education - yes, this one is huge and may be the biggest culprit - which has cut modern learners off from the western past in the name of being successful in today's modern world. History, so beloved by Tolkien, has become for the average person, akin to poison - to be avoided at all costs as at least unimportant and at worst useless. Most moderns have LOST dragons and trolls and elves and all those things that make up myth, and have no clue - CANNOT have a clue because they have not been taught how to have a clue as to the richness of what has been lost to them.

If, Lush, and dragongirlG, I am speaking of something that is particularly American or non-Eastern, I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

To summarize, though, imitation is what we have in fantasy because of a conservative publishing industry which is in turn captive to modern marketing necessities based on a shrunken imagination and knowledge base derived from a failure of education, confounded by other influences that tend to reduce the imitations to the lowest common denominator.

Now I'll get back to catching up on this thread....

04-06-2002, 07:22 AM	#55
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,072	I'm still trying to catch up to the current end of this dynamic thread, so bear with me, please, if this has already been covered. Some of you have hinted at the problems with the publishing industry, but have not addressed it as it affects Kalessin's original question. The only reason LOTR got published at all was because Tolkien had already been successful with The Hobbit, which itself was published on a fluke of chance (See Humphrey Carpenter's biography to learn more.) and by then a relationship of mutual respect between publisher and author warranted the publishing of what was believed to be a sure loser in terms of marketability. I said all that to say this: the publishing industry is by nature a conservative animal. It only works on the basis of sure bets. It was true in Tolkien's time, and is more true now because of the multiplied competing genres and technological forms. LOTR could not be published now, at all, unless by sheer fluke. This points back to the "we're to blame" argument Kalessin put forth, which as he already admitted under the excellent reparte of Aiwendil, was simplistic. That which sells gets published. It sells because the buyers accept it and they accept the substandard rubbish because of other influences. The other influences are (this is not an exhaustive list): 1) Robert E Howard's Conan series (which in itself was quite good but not as good as Tolkien) as passed on to the modern fantasy lover's mind through the media of pulp novels, comic books and movies; 2) AD&D with its encyclopedic mish mash of monsters, spells, hero classes and what not, which has the mass market appeal of making everything accessible for one's own picking and choosing and thus reducing ALL fantasy to the lowest common denominator for those who don't know better; 3) the modern extra-terrestrial fantasy which may be arguably considered sci-fi but has essentially replaced trolls, goblins, elves, gods and goddesses as that which 'fires the imagination' - thus we have fantasies like ET and Star Wars and and Star Trek and X Files and Spielberg's latest, "AI"; 4) the failure of modern education - yes, this one is huge and may be the biggest culprit - which has cut modern learners off from the western past in the name of being successful in today's modern world. History, so beloved by Tolkien, has become for the average person, akin to poison - to be avoided at all costs as at least unimportant and at worst useless. Most moderns have LOST dragons and trolls and elves and all those things that make up myth, and have no clue - CANNOT have a clue because they have not been taught how to have a clue as to the richness of what has been lost to them. If, Lush, and dragongirlG, I am speaking of something that is particularly American or non-Eastern, I would appreciate your thoughts on this. To summarize, though, imitation is what we have in fantasy because of a conservative publishing industry which is in turn captive to modern marketing necessities based on a shrunken imagination and knowledge base derived from a failure of education, confounded by other influences that tend to reduce the imitations to the lowest common denominator. Now I'll get back to catching up on this thread....