[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Whether or not LotR is best understood with a knowledge of the Legendarium or not, Gandalf's little Orthanc speech in The Council of Elrond seemed more like the narrator's voice than the wizard's - - - to me. If others find the same thing, maybe that says something more about the author (not deity's) regarding the wizard. After all, Gandalf is used as the "final authority" on anything within the story.

You know, littlemanpoet, I think perhaps this is the story teller coming out in you, for it strikes me that the dilemma here is that Tolkien has certain information that must come out and that it must be told under certain conditions. he choose finally to have Gandalf report the event, but that form of presenting the event created a tension between the character's knowledge and the narrator's knowledge. so to speak.

Tolkien could have chosen to present the Orthanc episode as it occured, but that might have first of all taken away the shock value of Saruman's defection as presented at the Council.

It might also have created too great an impact for Saruman's own words to be spoken, at a time when he must be seen as a traitor. In terms of the story mode, Tolkien choose as Milton did not not to make his villain attractive. There is no risk of being swayed by Saruman's words when they are simply reported words from the survivor of the episode.

To present the information in a scene between Gandalf and Elrond might run the risk of having them appear too much in control of the proceedings, giving them information which would have allowed them to sway the meeting. Here, at least, Elrond knows the general circumstances but he has not been acquainted with the precise details. Thus, his reaction becomes important at the Council.

There seems to be, too, details which are less relevant to Gandalf's Orthanc experience, such as the Gaffer's opinion of the new owners of Bag End, and the full dialogue between Gandalf and Butterbur at the Pony. I think they belong more to a narrator who loves his story and characters than to the wizard per se who must speak of his experience.

I would guess also that at some level Tolkien was aware that this account created a bit of a problem. After all, why give Gandalf his apologetic excuse for its length unless he (Tolkien) were aware that it did not sound enough like Gandalf?

I'm not sure if this is what you meant by telling us something about the author's attitude toward the character, but it strikes me that you are right that so much here is more suited to the narrator than the wizard. It's a writerly dilemma. Tolkien choose the most dramatic means to highlight the Orthanc episode without giving Saruman too much attention, but actually the story telling urge won out over the character.