The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - the Darkening of Valinor: texts and discussion

**lindil** · 01-14-2001, 08:56 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 215</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
I,IV,V,77,X

Well, closer perusal has yeilded a knotty number of texts in X alone.

We are left with 1 big decision and thousands of small one's .

the big one:

In it's final conception [written in late 1950's ]JRRT, had introduced ' The Darkening Of Valinor' as an overall title for the following chapters: [differently #'ed from the 77]
5 - Of Finwe and Miriel
6 - Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
7 - Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
8 - the Darkening of Valinor
*-of the rape of the Silmarils
9 - The Thieves' Quarrel

I had no idea of this when I suggested DoV as the starter text.

If we tackle it all now , it will take longer [obviously] , but yeild a rich and full treatment of the core of the 1st 1/2 of the Silm. or do we stick w./ what became invisaged as a sub chapter , if you will.

It will still involve checking texts from: I,IV,V,77,X and Xhas lot's to chose from.

Here is my list of what pages seem to be involved for doing DoV in the short conception
[this was how I was compiling till I got to the new format in X.

So maybe we can look carefully at these texts, getting a feel for the issues [CRRT's textual notes are reliable in showing major divergences and the introduction and disappearence of the individual themes w/in each chapter, it's funny, because I found them pretty dull till recently<img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> ]
My system ,such as it is; is to through the stories and notes starting w/ the last or first , writing comments on a seperate sheet as you go which can then be transferef to the forum. I am currently thinking that reading chrological is best for general info and becoming familiar w/ the changes. However I suspect that we will want to use the last text to start from when compiling [whenever possible].

******++++++********
Starting w/ V CRRT introduces a sectional #ing system within the 'Silm' chapters , they are not keyed to the entries in the Annals although the notes discuss the convergences and cross over of ideas and langauage.
It allows easier cross referencing ofV and X and remains employed throug XI.
I propose using these for the division of our labor, once we have made the last of the general decisions , which in this case seems to be, 1 chapter or 5 chapters DoV.
******** ++++++********
There is some overlapping of at what place in the narrative eah version starts and s tops, i.e. in a given chapter it may include a bit that in another version is placed later or earlier, for this reason some of my pages noted are slightly outside o f the D0V proper as it shifted around ,. I suggest being familiar w/ the paragraphs [if not chapters] before and after DoV [big one or small one once we decide ] to avoid missing stray details.

here are the pages for stories and the relevant notes that I came up with:

I - theTheft of Melko and the Darkening of Valinor ch.6 p. 141-161

IV - earliest Annals of Valinor: p.265-6
- the quenta : chapter 4 ,p. 89 -94

V - later annals of Valinor: p.113-115 valinorean years 2500- 2991
- quenta silmarillion : Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor ch 4, pages 227-232 #'s 46-59
& 5 of the Flight of the Noldor, #'s60 -64 p232-33, + notes on p. 238-9
77 - ch.8 p. 73 -77

X - The Annals of Aman p. 93 -106 p. Yr. 1400, #87-116
- p.142 - 3 have a few introductory comments interest.
- the later Q.S. 1st phase Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor ch.6 p. 184 - 193 #'s 46-56
- general note to the final version , concerning the subchapters of the now 5 chapter Do V ***p. 256
- the later Q.S. 2nd phase Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor sub chapters Of 'of the silmarills * * * * * * * * the unrest of the noldor' and 'of the rape of the silmarills' [contains material that has been in DoV till this * * * * * * * * * * * * version] , and ' of the darkeningof valinor' p. 273- 295 w/ final notes on 298-300
None of the above versions has MTshanges I have noticed yet.

So, let's read up and decide wether we want the Big DoV or the Little and then decide upon sectioning the chapters whichever way we decide.

NB* * * * I hope this is more useful than confusing , I know I will have to do something like this when there are more than say 3 versions involved for my own sanity, so I thought it wise to share.And I hoped it would make it easier for anyone following in our footsteps or peering over our shoulders!

lindil

"What then was this hope , if you know ?" Finrod asked "They say" answered Andreth :" they say that the One will himself enter into Arda , and heal Men and all the Marring from the begining to the end." Lindil is often found on posting on the 'New Revised Standard' Silmarillion at the Barrowdowns discussion board. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 1/14/01 10:57:26 am

01-14-2001, 08:56 AM	#5
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,681	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 215</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> I,IV,V,77,X Well, closer perusal has yeilded a knotty number of texts in X alone. We are left with 1 big decision and thousands of small one's . the big one: In it's final conception [written in late 1950's ]JRRT, had introduced ' The Darkening Of Valinor' as an overall title for the following chapters: [differently #'ed from the 77] 5 - Of Finwe and Miriel 6 - Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor 7 - Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor 8 - the Darkening of Valinor -of the rape of the Silmarils 9 - The Thieves' Quarrel I had no idea of this when I suggested DoV as the starter text. If we tackle it all now , it will take longer [obviously] , but yeild a rich and full treatment of the core of the 1st 1/2 of the Silm. or do we stick w./ what became invisaged as a sub chapter , if you will. It will still involve checking texts from: I,IV,V,77,X and Xhas lot's to chose from. Here is my list of what pages seem to be involved for doing DoV in the short conception [this was how I was compiling till I got to the new format in X. So maybe we can look carefully at these texts, getting a feel for the issues [CRRT's textual notes are reliable in showing major divergences and the introduction and disappearence of the individual themes w/in each chapter, it's funny, because I found them pretty dull till recently<img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ] My system ,such as it is; is to through the stories and notes starting w/ the last or first , writing comments on a seperate sheet as you go which can then be transferef to the forum. I am currently thinking that reading chrological is best for general info and becoming familiar w/ the changes. However I suspect that we will want to use the last text to start from when compiling [whenever possible]. ***++++++**** Starting w/ V CRRT introduces a sectional #ing system within the 'Silm' chapters , they are not keyed to the entries in the Annals although the notes discuss the convergences and cross over of ideas and langauage. It allows easier cross referencing ofV and X and remains employed throug XI. I propose using these for the division of our labor, once we have made the last of the general decisions , which in this case seems to be, 1 chapter or 5 chapters DoV. **** ++++++**** There is some overlapping of at what place in the narrative eah version starts and s tops, i.e. in a given chapter it may include a bit that in another version is placed later or earlier, for this reason some of my pages noted are slightly outside o f the D0V proper as it shifted around ,. I suggest being familiar w/ the paragraphs [if not chapters] before and after DoV [big one or small one once we decide ] to avoid missing stray details. here are the pages for stories and the relevant notes that I came up with: I - theTheft of Melko and the Darkening of Valinor ch.6 p. 141-161 IV - earliest Annals of Valinor: p.265-6 - the quenta : chapter 4 ,p. 89 -94 V - later annals of Valinor: p.113-115 valinorean years 2500- 2991 - quenta silmarillion : Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor ch 4, pages 227-232 #'s 46-59 & 5 of the Flight of the Noldor, #'s60 -64 p232-33, + notes on p. 238-9 77 - ch.8 p. 73 -77 X - The Annals of Aman p. 93 -106 p. Yr. 1400, #87-116 - p.142 - 3 have a few introductory comments interest. - the later Q.S. 1st phase Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor ch.6 p. 184 - 193 #'s 46-56 - general note to the final version , concerning the subchapters of the now 5 chapter Do V p. 256 - the later Q.S. 2nd phase Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor sub chapters Of 'of the silmarills * * * * * * * the unrest of the noldor' and 'of the rape of the silmarills' [contains material that has been in DoV till this * * * * * * * * * * * * version] , and ' of the darkeningof valinor' p. 273- 295 w/ final notes on 298-300 None of the above versions has MTshanges I have noticed yet. So, let's read up and decide wether we want the Big DoV or the Little and then decide upon sectioning the chapters whichever way we decide. NB* * * * I hope this is more useful than confusing , I know I will have to do something like this when there are more than say 3 versions involved for my own sanity, so I thought it wise to share.And I hoped it would make it easier for anyone following in our footsteps or peering over our shoulders! lindil "What then was this hope , if you know ?" Finrod asked "They say" answered Andreth :" they say that the One will himself enter into Arda , and heal Men and all the Marring from the begining to the end." Lindil is often found on posting on the 'New Revised Standard' Silmarillion at the Barrowdowns discussion board. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 1/14/01 10:57:26 am __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.