[MatthewM]

MatthewM = two T's.

Originally Posted by Findulias

Ouch. MathewM, I have to say that I find your post painful.

First I have to say that your closing arguement was in my experience incorrect.

And also, you called his hair dark blonde. I don't think it is that light but I might not be remembering it correctly.)

Painful? Incorrect? Well you haven't had many discussions on the character then, have you?

I did not call his hair dark blonde. I called it the lightest shade of brown.


You have some sound points, "Boromir88", for your argument, but I feel as if you are only glimpsing at the silver lining, and not looking at his portrayal as a whole in the films. I would also like to say that I do not dislike the films at all- I love them, as a matter of fact- but Boromir was not best portrayed, not by a long shot. I never said Bean didn't do a great job with the character, I agree that he understood Boromir well...I'm not blaming the faults on Bean, he did a great job, but he was too old looking for the character. Not the best for Tolkien's Boromir, and surely not the best adapted from book to film, personality wise, appearance wise, and accomplishments wise. We'll put all the fault on PJ. How's that? Where to start...

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Appearance, costume, hair...etc really isn't the actors fault, so when I think of portrayal I don't consider too much about all that. I think did the actor bring out his/her character in the book? When I see Sean Bean on screen can I think of Boromir of Lord of the Rings? And I would say I can!

Of course you can think of him as Boromir- he played him. How can you not consider apperance when you think of portrayal? The way a character looks, especially when it was described so well in the books, should be carefully adhered to, not neglected like PJ so often did.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

However, let's look at a few more things with that extended scene in Osgiliath.

The extended scene definitely shows the love between the two brothers quite well I would say. It shows their brotherly bond and Boromir standing up for/defending Faramir.

And that scene is the only way PJ could have pulled that off? There were tons of different ways to have shown the love and bond between Boromir and Faramir. The scene does show their bond, but that does not make up for the rest of the atrocities of this scene.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Well, as much as I hate to admit it book Boromir could also be quite childish...eventhough this was changed in the movies, lets not forget it was Boromir who through the stones disturbing 'The Watcher.' Also, he is a man that struggled taking orders and did indeed show a little bit of contempt when things didn't go his way.

Well, let's look at it from Boromir's view. Here he is, at the entrance to Moria, a place he did not even want to go, with some brilliant wizard who supposedly knows endless lore, magic, and wisdom of Middle-earth...and he can't even open the door? I would have thrown a stone to pass some time as well! What is so childish about it? Surely when a grown man throws a stone in the water he is not deemed "childish" in a negative way. How was Boromir supposed to know a hideous monster dwelled within the water?

And as you said, Boromir was not used to taking orders...he did his best.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

afterall didn't he say he would not go to Lothlorien unless if all the Company was against him?

At least he was a team player.

I still would not call it childish, anyway. If you do not want to go somewhere, you would say it, would you not? I would.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

At first Boromir does seem pretty unsure/unwilling of Aragorn being his King:

Boromir does say the Sword of Elendil would be a welcome to Gondor, that is if Aragorn isn't simply caring some old relic and he knows what he's doing. So, there is a little bit of tension here between Aragorn and Boromir (at their first meeting). Boromir is doubtful, Aragorn hasn't proven himself to Boromir yet, and afterall lets not forget this was also a son who asked his dad why wasn't he the king?

I find it odd that you chose to randomly address Boromir's relationship to Aragorn as I did not really mention it in my post. Is this a point on why you liked the movie Boromir? If so, why do you go on to explain yourself like you are defending the position? I never made any comment about the portrayal of the relationship of Boromir and Aragorn (which, I thought, was done rather well at some points, excluding some scenes like the EE scene when Aragorn tells Boromir that "he would not lead the Ring within a blah blah blah of your City") besides that movie Boromir was paranoid of Aragorn's intentions from the start. Which he was- and although in the books a similiar feeling was conjured (doubt in Boromir's eyes) like you said, book Boromir eventually accepts Aragorn's claim and conceals his desire for the Ring until his lust is awoken in Lorien. This is different than PJ's council. If you want to talk about a fumble in the relationship of movie Aragorn and Boromir, and a childish movie Boromir nontheless, how about the line-

"Gondor has no king...Gondor needs no king." (As he sits down with a pout)

We do not get what Tolkien's Boromir admitted, that the Sword of Elendil would be a hope and help to Minas Tirith.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would disagree with the 'grim' part, at least that's not how Eomer pictured him:
'Great harm is this death to Minas Tirith, and to us all. That was a worthy man! All spoke of his praise. He came seldom to the Mark, for he was ever in the wars on the East-borders; but I have seen him. More like to the swift sons of Eorl than to the grave Men of Godnor he seemed to me,'~The Riders of Rohan

Look at Eomer's last words in that sentence..."he seemed to me". That is Eomer's opinion alone. Boromir was, regardless of Eomer's opinion, a "grave man of Gondor", and doubtless Boromir would have defended that. A synonym for "grave" is "grim".

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Perhaps Boromir wasn't a 'partay animal' but as you said he definitely did rejoice in his victories...and as Faramir points out not only did he seek a restoration of the 'Glory of Gondor' but he wanted his own glory with it.

I do not recall saying he did not want any glory.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I disagree, right from the get go Boromir wants the Ring...just in the books he seemed to do a better job suppressing his desire for the Ring (until after meeting with Galadriel)...but that desire began right from the start:

So, Boromir's desire for the Ring starts right there in Rivendell...and his championing for Gondor begins:

There's the key word...'weapon.' Right from the get go Boromir sees the Ring as a weapon and wants to use it (just as the movie portrays).

Now, what Jackson does do is show the Ring 'effecting' him a little sooner than the books. Boromir (in the books) was able to suppress his desires for the Ring until after Lothlorien (thats when he starts acting nervous, giving 'hard' stares at Frodo...etc), Jackson just decides to show the Ring growing on Boromir's mind a bit sooner. But this doesn't mean it's an inaccurate portrayal, the bottomline is the desire for using the Ring as a weapon was in Boromir right when he first sees it, in the movies and in the books.

Yet this quick lust that PJ shows grows ever quickly in the movies, which denotes the hard will of Tolkien's Boromir. It is true that Boromir wanted to use the Ring from the start, there is no denying that- but the fact that Boromir suppressed this lust until Galadriel tested him is saying a lot more of his character than all along having the Ring on his mind, which PJ's softer willed Boromir did. Even after Lorien (book) Boromir just wanted to go home, showing his right state of mind return, just before the temptation and lust for Ring consumes him as he attempts to take the "weapon" from Frodo.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I disagree, many of those moments listed Jackson chose not to show...most likely because he didn't have time to show it all. But when we do see Boromir I don't think we can say he was as you put here

Lets not forget in the movies (as well as the books) it was Boromir with the suggestion to get off Caradhras because the Hobbits would freeze to death. Yep Jackson added that part in.

What is your argument here? How can you disagree when you yourself say that Jackson chose not to show Boromir's shining moments? He could have added them, if nothing else he could have contained them in the extended cut. Boromir's idea of burrowing through the shoulder-length snow of Caradhras saved the Company from freezing to death. You are going to defend that a just replacement for this great deed was that PJ's Boromir yells "this will be the death of the Hobbits!"? C'mon now.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Also, I would say his warrioresqueness showed in Moria when he was the one who went charging into the fray first, while the others stood back and shot or just waited. In the books Boromir is the one up front holding the door...they don't show it this way in the movies, but Jackson does do something similar with Boromir being the one charging into the Orcs.

I do not see this as any sort of replacement for book Boromir's yell of "Gondor!" as he ran towards the Balrog with Aragorn, willing to fight alongside Gandalf to his death.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And Boromir true gleaming moment in the spotlight which shows his absolute bravery is his defense of Merry and Pippin. Which the movie portrays absolutely stunningly...

Agreed, but his lore of survival and his physical strength that he contributed to the journey is on such a higher scale in the books. His deeds on Caradhras (suggesting wood for fire, burrowing through the snow) and in Moria are pivotal for his character, and as they were not shown in the films, people do not know of all the deeds Boromir the Brave accomplished in The Fellowship.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

When we watch the scene in the movie do we get the feeling of Boromir's first off amazing warrior qualities, and secondly this man who's trying to make up for an evil he just committed and for something he knows he did wrong? For me, it's a resounding yes...it is different from the books, but it still does the job, and does it quite well.

Agreed, yet PJ still does not include Boromir's smile. The smile, to me, is the most important part of Boromir's death. It is the sign and confirmation that Boromir understands, has repented, and is leaving Middle-earth without his worry and overbearing pride.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

It's only 'three' arrows...bah big deal

Wholeheartedly disagree. Before he fell Boromir received numerous arrow wounds all over the place. Three arrows is reducing that plenty. You can say three arrows is more realistic, but that is not Tolkien's Boromir- he did not fall until numerous arrows pierced him.

Side note- they got away with countless arrows in the warriors of the movie "300".

Originally Posted by Boromir88

he was still fighting and defending the hobbits after being shot twice in the chest, that's pretty darn heroic if you ask me.

Still heroic, yes. I teared at the scene as well...it is one of the best that PJ did in the trilogy, and the most touching. You are right that the point was made in the same way as the books. But was it accurate to the great warrior's strength? Not really.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I disagree here too...Now grant it there is an issue with time where I don't think you can really show everything. But I absolutely love what Bean and Jackson do with Boromir's character (excluding that scene with pops in the EE). I just want to touch on this...
'and Pippin gazing at him saw how closely he resembled his brother Boromir - whom Pippin had liked from teh first, admiring the great man's lordly but kindly manner.~The Siege of Gondor

This description from Pippin is great, and it breathes life to my image of Tolkien's Boromir. It also serves as opposite for what you are arguing for, in my opinion, because the word you did not highlight or comment on, lordly, did not come across in PJ's movies...in fact, what Jackson "did" was almost strip the character of this quality. Where was movie Boromir's lordly qualities? Did he leave them with the trail of pee that was left when he recoiled from an insane Denethor's wish to retreive a "kingly gift"?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, in a nutshell, I would say Boromir was played and portrayed very well...if not the best. Sure Jackson changed around some scenes and showed things a little differently, but at the heart of it, what still remains is when watching Sean Bean on screen I got the feeling that he was Boromir, he was his part in the books

I disagree. Jackson changing scenes around and showing things a lot differently isn't kosher with me.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

We see his kind manner, we see his love for his brother and his people, we see his generalship, his warrior attitude, his vibrant youth, as well as his not so great traits...his childish-like behavior, his skepticism of Aragorn, and his desire for the Ring. We also see a developement in his relationship with Aragorn, when it first starts out a little rocky but grows and strengthens...all of which I think are present in the books and which are shown in the movies.

Yet how they were portrayed is a totaly different story.