View Single Post
Old 01-28-2005, 07:02 PM   #32
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,694
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
First some remarks on the later geography: I do not think that the drawing of the road is so much in error that the Ford over Duin Daer would be directly north the confluence. As the reason for that I can only put forward the story of the Folk of Haleth. But I must admiss that only a small distance is needed to provide enough space for a stockard. On the other hand, if we take the map in such a liberal way than a Ford over Ascar in the foothills of the mountians is even more possible.

Let me add a further remark on the changed geography: In the Maeglin chapter we get the follwing passage:
Quote:
From Elmoth to Gelion the land was, north of the Andram and the Falls below the last Ford over Gelion (8)(just above the inflow of the River Ascar from the Mountains), mostly rolling plain, with large regions of big trees without thickets. There were several beaten tracks made originally by Dwarves from Belegost and Nogrod, the best (most used and widest) being from the Little Ford past the north of Elmoth and to the Ford of Aros, it crossed the Bridge of Esgalduin but went no further for, if the Dwarves wished to visit Menegroth

This text then becomes altogether illegible. ...

Note (8) reads: The Falls in Gelion below Sarn Athrad have not been referred to before, and indeed in QS Chapter 9 Of BEleriand and its Realms (V.262-3, §113; The Silmarillion p.122) their existence is denied: 'Gelion had neither fall nor rapids throughout his course'.
That means that geography had realy changed. We do not known, if the "discovery" of the Falls in the course of Gelion, where the reason for the new placeing of the Ford (some way north of the confluence instad of directly south of it). But I think that this at least possible if not likely.
For me, this does also cast some doubt on the discription of the Ford in TN. But I have not enough knowledge about this part of hydro-geography to come up with an argument for my doubts.


Now to the slip of the pen: I will try to add some arguments against that. In my last post I did make my reasons rejecting that idea not very clear.
AB2 makes not clear over which river the Ford Sarn Athrad lead, but the gold is cast into the river Ascar which than renamed Rathloriel. The temporary scripts make clear that Sarn Athrad was over Gelion and the Elves activley cast the gold in the river Ascar. All 4 version of TY are clearly reformulated. In A the only name given is the new name for the river Rathloriel, but it is at this river were the battle ocourse. In TY B the ford is named Sarn Athrad and led over Rathloriel. In C and in D the Ford is over Ascar and the Dwarves cast the gold them self into that river and that river is renamed to Rathloriel.

I would agree to a possible slip of the pen in the very short version TY A, but if that is the case then the following versions worked on these failure (if a failure it was) in a kind development that I can not lock at as unconsicous. Thus if a slip of the pen it was in A, it is no longer in TY C and D at least.

That is what I can put forward in the Moment. It might be good if you would give your reason for suspecting that all the versions of TY were a case of repeated slip of the pen.

Respectfully
Findegil

Last edited by Findegil; 01-31-2005 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Just a typo.
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote