Thread: Goblins=Orcs??
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Old 04-06-2001, 06:55 AM   #9
Shagrat
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Orcs are goblins - goblins are Orcs.

Tolkien says (in the introduction to the Hobbit), that &quot;goblin&quot; is a translation of &quot;Orc&quot;.

The idea that goblins are smaller Orcs is completely erroneous (Although in unpublished early drafts, Tolkien did toy with the idea - before inventing &quot;Uruk&quot; to indicate larger goblins).

The misunderstanding arises from two sentences - one in &quot;The Hobbit&quot; and one in LotR. In the former book, a sentence talks about &quot;even the big ones, the great Orcs of the mountains...&quot; This can be interpreted as implying that Orcs are bigger than goblins. But if the emphasis is placed on &quot;great&quot; rather than Orc, with the understanding (gleaned from the intro) that &quot;Orc&quot; and &quot;goblin&quot; are synonyms, then it doesn't indicate this at all.

The second passage is in &quot;The Two Towers&quot;, where Pippin and Merry wake up to find themselves surrounded by Orcs. They hear arguing between Ugluk, Grishnakh and the Northerners, and then see U and G standing facing each other. The text says that &quot;around them stood many smaller goblins...&quot; Now, if you stress &quot;goblins&quot; when you read, this implies that goblins are smaller creatures than Ugluk and Grishnakh. But if you emphazise &quot;smaller&quot;, you get the correct understanding - that U and G are goblins too - LARGER goblins. This is undoubtedly correct, as both Ugluk (or his severed head) and Grishnakh are described as &quot;goblins&quot; elsewhere in the text.

In fact, &quot;goblin&quot; is used to describe Saruman's Uruk-hai more than any other specific kind of Orc in LotR. As well as the description of Ugluk's severed head (or is it Mauhur's?), we also have the bodies of &quot;four goblin-soldiers of greater stature&quot;. This alone is clear proof that &quot;goblin&quot; is a synonym for &quot;Orc&quot;, as Tolkien explicitly tells us it is, rather than a term for some smaller sub-group.

By the way, the snuffling tracker in Mordor is never described as a goblin.

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