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Old 07-23-2006, 09:10 AM   #3
Boromir88
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White Tree ~

Kuru, great topic idea.

Well I would agree that there would be no disputing the fact that Dwarves could be drawn to 'evil,' and even to the two Dark Lords. I think it's much more easier for Dwarves to be drawn towards evil deeds, then allying themselves with Sauron or Melkor, simply because they were more resiliant then say Men were:
Quote:
Other originally independent creatures, and Men among them (but neither Elves nor Dwarves) could be reduced to a like condition. But ’puppets’, with no independent life or will, would simply cease to move or do anything at all when the will of their maker was brought to nothing.~Morgoth's Ring: Text X
Tolkien refers to Sauron's orcs as being like 'puppets' under his control. For Dwarves and Elves this 'puppet-like' state is impossible to be reduced to. They will always have an independent will, and could not be reduced to an orc-like state of slavedom.

Also...
Quote:
'The Dwarves indeed proved tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the domination of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows.'~Of the Rings of Power
They were hard to be brought over to serve Sauron or Morgoth, because they didn't like to be 'tamed' and 'controlled.' And they couldn't be turned to 'shadows' into Wraith-like state as the 9 men were.

Though it was possible to sway dwarves over to their (Sauron and Morgoth) side, it was just a difficult:
Quote:
'From Imladris they [Army of the Last Alliance] crossed the Misty Mountains by many passes and marched down the River Anduin, and so came at last upon the host of Sauron on Dagorlad, the Battle Plain, which lies before the gate of the Black Land. All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only.'~ibid
We see in the Council of Elrond that the dwarves of Erebor were offered a deal:
Quote:
'As a small token only of your Friendship Sauron asks this,' he said: 'that you should find this thief,' such was his word, 'and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trile that Sauron fancies, and in earnest of your good will. Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf-sires possessed of old shall be returned to you, and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever. Find only news of the thief, whether he still lives and where, and you shall have great reward and lasting friendship from the Lord. Refuse, and things will not seem so well. Do you refuse?'
Dain refuses the offer, and somewhere that I can't find right now, it talks about the loyalty of Durin's folke and solely helping the Last Alliance in the Second Age.

But this was just one instance where the dwarves were put in the grinder so to say. They had a sweet deal offered to them, and being Durin's folk rejected the deal. Which, I think for one shows just how loyal and resiliant the dwarves can be. They don't like being ordered around and controlled one thing for sure.

Quote:
They are a toug, thrawn race for the most part, secretive, laborious, retentive of the memory of injuries (and of benefits), lovers of stone, of gems, of things that take shape under the hands of the craftsman rather than things that live by their own life. But they are not evil by nature, and few ever served the Enemy of free will, whatever the tales of Men may have alleged. For Men of old lusted after their wealth and the work of their handsm and there has been enmity between the races.~Appendix F: Languages of the People of the Third Age
What's important is they were 'retentive of the memory of injuries (and of benefits), so they remembered grudges or friendships. Which, I think could factor into whether dwarves fight with 'evil' or not.

We definitely see a case of dwarves and their feud with the Sindar Elves, which go back to the slaying of Thingol, and carries on into LOTR. But, I think dwarves were loyal to their allies. They knew who there friends were, who helped them, and they would not do harm against them.

A good example of this is Bilbo, who helped the dwarves out immensely in regaining Erebor, and those dwarves who travelled with Bilbo would never forget that. And the friendship carries on into LOTR, when we see the friendship starting between Gloin and Frodo in Many Meetings. I don't think Gloin had ever even met Frodo, but being Bilbo's heir, and knowing what Bilbo had done for them, by dwarven nature he would be kind to Frodo. And going back to Sauron offering the dwarves a deal:
Quote:
'Heavy have the hearts of our chieftains been since that night. We needed not the fell voice of the messenger to warn us that his words held both menace and deceit; for we knew already that the power that has re-entered Mordor has not changed, and ever it betrayed us of old.'~The Council of Elrond
So, by dwarven nature, I think it's much more likely they would commit an evil act on their own (out of greed mostly) than to be swayed to Sauron or Morgoth's side (though that was possible). The dwarves knew who there friends were, knew who has helped them and who has betrayed them in the past, and they don't forget that.

They seem to be a rather withdrawn race during the War of the Ring. Though we had the Dwarves of Erebor fighting, we don't hear much of dwarves besides Gimli, just that small bit in the Council and some more in the Appendices. They seem to just kind of want to go along and do their own thing, if someone steps out and helps them they don't forget that and will remain in strong friendship. If someone betrays them, they won't forget that either, and will be careful next time to trust them (if they ever do).

So, it all comes down to, the dwarves were hard to push around, they had a strong will and weren't easily swayed either way. It was much more likely they would do something evil out of greed as we see in The Silmarillion:
Quote:
Then Thingol, being alone among them, made to take it up and clasp it about his neck; but the Dwarves in that moment withheld it from him, and demainded that they yied it up to them, saying: 'By what right does the Elvenking lay claim to the Nauglamir, that was made by our fathers for Finrod Felagun who is dead? It has come to him but by the hand of Hurin the man of Dor-lomin, who took it as a thief out of the darkness of Nargothrond.' But Thingol perceived their heards, and saw well that desiring the Silmaril they sought but a pretext and fair cloak for their true intent...~Of the Ruin of Doriath
Whoever was right or wrong in this case doesn't matter, the dwarves (as well as Thingol) got greedy and in their wrath slew Thingol.

And concluding, I think this goes along with what you were saying Kuru, in that the dwarve's deceptiveness, and they may very well could have deceived people in order to get what they want. For in this instance they were able to mask their intent on desiring the Silmaril, and lay a fair sounding claim that the Nauglamir was there's...but Thingol saw past this...just a little example of Dwarves trying to cloak their intent.
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