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Old 07-26-2012, 10:58 AM   #30
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,031
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Finally, Galin, your are getting down to the discussions in Arda Reconstructed itself moving away from what I perceive as innuendo against the messenger which surely misses that point. If the messenger has presented the data mostly correctly, then the fact that occasionally he or she has stumbled occasionally becomes no more than a minor flaw such as the greatest of us are liable to make. If the messenger has grossly misrepresented the data then blaming the messenger in himself or herself is unnecessary. It is the misrepresentation that will put the blame on the messenger over any heated words.
You're obviously entitled to your perceptions about the thread Jallanite, and I think I have already responded to what you perceived to be innuendo. And as for presenting data mostly 'correctly'... for example have I misrepresented the data with respect to my commentary about Uinen and Osse above? I don't think so (and I certainly didn't intend to if I did), but my presentation is different from that found in AR in any case, and which would be part of a notably different presentation in general (in theory), when dealing with the same data.

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That some others are bothered by Kane's supposed insinuations about Christopher Tolkien's supposed misogyny. doesn't impress me at all, having read the discussion. That is only a weak form of the appeal to authority fallacy,: some people were discussing something and some of them agreed with me, so there must be something to their position.
I was just pointing out (in reaction to the way you chose to phrase something) that I am not alone in my reaction to the way the argument is presented in Arda Reconstructed. I realize that the fact that others share my opinion in no way makes me right and others wrong; nor would even the majority opinion, if it could be known, automatically make those who hold it ojectively correct. That said, I likely never would have posted on the subject if I had been the only person to have reacted to Arda Reconstructed in this way, as I would be very strongly second guessing my personal reaction...

... so let's say: for what it's worth, despite that for you 'Galin' raised this possibility (and Galin alone in that context, as you chose to put it), again, someone else raised it well before I did.

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Nor is there any one method of identifying major or minor characters in The Silmarillion. It depend where one draws tjhe line and diffferent people will draws in in different places if they try to definitely distinguish between major and minor?
Well if it's subjective, I note that I asked Doug Kane for a more complete list (out of the 11 female characters) of who he thinks cannot be called a minor character. He certainly doesn't need to answer, even if the reason is simply that the expects me to disagree with him about some example and doesn't want to discuss the matter further.


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Voronwe wrote: 'Yes, many of the edits that affect the role of female characters result from Christopher choosing shorter versions.'
Edit: I just realized you might be (and probably are) talking about each specific edit, thus 'many'... while above I was looking at things differently. I guess what I'm saying is that: Arda Reconstructed does not appear to argue that the majority of the cases of 'reduction' (out of 11 cited) result from Christopher Tolkien choosing a shorter version over a longer version.

In that sense Andreth, Beleth (merely missing on a genealogical table) and Arien, which seems akin to the case of Galadriel in my opinion, are three more cases, leaving 6 out of 11 (as you agree with Uinen, Galadriel and Ungoliant it seems).

Last edited by Galin; 07-26-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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