[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Marwhini

As for how do you reconcile a Talking Pursue?

There are dozens of different ways to reconcile a talking pursue.

Formost among them is that The Hobbit is a story that Bilbo crafted to tell other Hobbit Children, and that the event with the Trolls has been Bowdlerized to make it amusing to the Children, and not the terrifying experience it might have been.

First, it's purse, p-u-r-s-e, not "pursue".

You could pound a square peg into a round hole and claim "The Hobbit is a story Bilbo crafted to tell other Hobbit Children"; however, there is nothing anywhere in Tolkien's notes to indicate it was Bowdlerized, and you would be back to mere speculation. We know Tolkien didn't care for the naming conventions of the three Trolls (and he names "William" in particular), but then he didn't care for the names of all the Dwarves in the story either (and Gandalf to boot), borrowed as they were from the Völuspá. But he did edit out any number of anachronisms from The Hobbit, yet he chose to keep the talking purse in and never mentioned it again as anachronistic or out of character or too whimsical.

But if, as you speculate, the story was Bowdlerized, and since we know that Bilbo lied about the Ring at one point, doesn't that call into account the veracity of the story as a whole? How many elements were changed to meet the mythical audience you created with your conjecture? Is there a list of things you believe could not occur to fit in your stilted theory? If that's the case, it cannot be considered "canon" in the truest sense, and we must toss aside The Hobbit as unfit for your divine plan.

And how do Trolls have an intrinsically magic item that is beyond their obvious ability to craft? Did they steal it from Ye Old Coach Purse and Majicks Shoppe? It is a unique item, unlike any other described in the Tolkien corpus. Does it work on solar power? D'oh! No, forget that idea. Thorin mentions "magical toys" his forefathers' created that were now out the Dwarves' ken to create. Yes, one is left with conjecture - it could be one of many manifestations (it may even have a soul ). The enigmatic. The unexplainable. The supernatural. These have a place in Tolkien's fantasy. Just like the "express train" that passed through Bywater one evening.

Originally Posted by Marwhini

There are other Mythological alternatives that can explain a Talking Pursue as well.

I have already described in a previous post the talking purse as a folkloric motif, which it is, and Tolkien would have recognized it as such (hence, it's inclusion). But Tolkien always leaves one guessing. He guessed quite often himself, and never came to a specific one-size-fits-all, end-all-be-all, all-in-all-we're-just-another-brick-in-the-wall conclusion about many things. Tom Bombadil, for instance, who he specifically named an "enigma". And since Tolkien is dead, you will never come to a conclusion about some things, which is fine and part of the allure of the tale. Take Trolls, for instance. Tolkien wrote in Letter 153:

I am not sure about Trolls. I think they are mere 'counterfeit', and hence (though here I am of course only using elements of old barbarous mythmaking that had no 'aware' metaphysic) they return to mere stone images when not in the dark. But there are other sorts of Trolls beside these rather ridiculous, if brutal, Stone-trolls, for which other origins are suggested. Of course since my world is highly imperfect even on its own plane nor made wholly coherent...when you make a Troll speak you are giving them a power, which in our world (probably) connotes the possession of a 'soul'. But I do not agree (if you admit that fairy-story element) my Trolls show any sign of 'good', strictly and unsentimentally viewed.

Let's see: "I am not sure", "I think", "using elements of old barbarous mythmaking", "other origins are suggested", "my world is highly imperfect", "[not] wholly coherent", "probably", "if you admit that fairy-story element", etc. That's quite a bit of conjecture by the Professor about his own story. And you have the temerity to say you will continue his work? That, my dear, it what is called fan-fiction, and invariably it suffers when compared to the original.

Originally Posted by Marwhini

As I already pointed out, Having the world based upon Sciences does not preclude what we call "The Supernatural," as the whole attempt is to reconcile that and TO EXPLAIN IT. It means that we need to just look at what would need to be true within Middle-earth for the events, items, people, places, etc. to behave as we see them behave.

What legitimate science accepts the Supernatural or the enigmatic? Oh, I know, when you bend and warp science to make an artificial synthesis of a fiction novel. Rather like Joseph Campbell's tortured attempt to cram every story into his Hero's Journey one-size-fits-all mold. If Tolkien did not explain it while he was alive and writing, how can you then force it into your precepts without making crap up? Educated guesses are guesses with a thesaurus. Again, fan-fiction, no matter how high the temperature it takes to burn cellulose. One could just as easily say Gandalf possessed a Ring of Power, imbued with fire, which he set his pine cones ablaze with, and you wouldn't be wrong...or right, for that matter. Gandalf may also have used gunpowder, as in the cave against the Orcs (which would also explain the "devilry of Saruman" and the explosion at Helm's Deep).

Originally Posted by Marwhini

The rest of your post is based upon a misconception of what is being attempted, based upon the above point.

Not to mention not understanding that we have an Identical Problem with our own Universe, where conflicting theories and narratives tend to prevent this very thing.

Don't worry, Formy, he's insulted 5 or 6 different people on this forum in like manner already, reminding us of our ignorance. Whatever.