[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Finally on the topic of Elvish maturity.

I will first address the brief note that we have in the Unfinished Tales, where Tolkien says that the Eldar aged much the same way as the Numenoreans.

"Thus (as the Eldar) they grew at much the same rate other Men, but when they had achieved 'full growth' they then aged, or 'wore out', very much more slowly."-Unfinished Tales, Line of Elros.

This comment here certainly implies that Elves and Men aged MUCH the same and would certainly dismiss the notion of the Eldar taking 3000 years to mature. However, what does Tolkien mean by 'much the same'? Is an elf taking 50 years to mature, a Hobbit taking 33 years and a Dunedain taking 33 years that different? Without any further elaboration I am not convinced that this is enough to dismiss the detailed essay he wrote about Elvish aging.

But did anyone say "Laws and Customs" should be "dismissed", anyway? I thought the question was whether it can be considered the final word on the subject. Not the same thing.

I am unaware of any other source we have from Christopher Tolkien, which further addresses the issue except for 'Laws and Customs' and the part in the Children of Hurin.

The Children of Hurin was compiled much later than even the HOME. Christopher Tolkien had even more time to evaluate his fathers notes and take out things he did not think would quite fit.

Christopher Tolkien also tells us that Tolkien completed most of the Children of Hurin after the publication of LOTR.

We've been through this before, I think? I have the greatest respect for Christopher Tolkien's judgement regarding his father's work, but to not to the extent of treating him as some kind of high priest of Tolkienicity. -And yes, that's hyperbole and not meant literally- but honestly, cellurdur, you're pinning so much on his editorial decisions that it almost comes to that.

Also, there is what I said earlier: Sador's words point to *a* difference- but is it the one in "Laws and Customs"? Or something else again? I don't think there's any way of telling for sure.

Personally I think it's a very big jump to assume that Tolkien dismissed the idea of Elves maturing at 50 given Christopher Tolkien never commenting on this one note. It becomes an even bigger stretch when we see how the mortal (an ultimately descendant from Man) Hobbits have evolved to reach full maturity at 33.

I, for my part, assume nothing of the kind. However, the bare fact that he may
have done so casts doubt on the whole line of reasoning based on Dior/Earendil/Elwing's ages- which was the original point. For that matter just the fact that it's not the *only* version does that.