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Old 06-02-2017, 06:40 AM   #13
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Originally Posted by Mithadan View Post
I posit that Sauron was a fool in creating the One. It did not succeed in its purpose. The creation of the One placed a large portion of his strength in an OBJECT that could be lost or destroyed. If he had not created the One and invested time and effort into trying to fool the Elves, he could have retained all his strength in himself and would have been no worse off. And ultimately, what happens? He loses the Ring when it is cut off his finger by Isildur, and eventually it is destroyed, also destroying him. The creation of the One Ring was a colossal miscalculation.
Hello Mithadan, it's a really interesting topic. I vary from seeing Sauron (Maia of Aule) as suffering from autocentric self-centred 'foolishness' and at my most unforgiving as suffering from monocentric lock. The two ideas place egocentrism on a continuum, with the latter serving, perhaps, ideas about egoic greed and narcissism in evil emotional pleasure of Sauronic greed, fed by the deployment of the Rings of Power, which divert to Sauron, autocentric control over Ring Bearers. It's the common interpretation of the mythology, where Tolkien cites Sauron at Eregion as passing some kind of critical point in egocentric, sadistic 'runaway mode', and uses actual word lust and greed in a conjoined reference to that tipping point leading to the War of Elves and Sauron (i'd need to lookup the citation - recognising Morth-oron is not far away hahahah).

It's interesting that Tolkien refers to 'seduction' and 'lust' in how he describes what I always saw as the basis of the 'egocentric blindness' (autocetric lock) or Vanity of Narcissism where Suaron becomes nauseatingly self-referential, in imagining everyone wants, in the end to be 'evilly pleasured' by power and greed. Think legally here Mithadan and Morthoron, as in 'intention elements and evidentiary weight for culpability analyses. We use 'psychopathy' in law and society as the analogue, where we suggest that 'wise foolishness' perhaps is the analogue for the 'absence of seeing/perspective taking/empathy' of psychopathy. It is interesting that the implications of a singularity of monocentrism, is inconsistent with positing that Sauron had not another 'plan' post Third Age. He needed beings NOT to be OF his 'self' as well, so he could avoid boredom, if nothing else. hahahha

It's interesting that the Rings imbue a Sauronic solution about 'lack of affective empathy' inherent in psychopathic (the lust/greed motif) by making the Ring Owner 'able to see' the actual thoughts of each bearer. This, I think is what 'wise foolishness' might be Tolkien's idea. It follows the ideas in The Return of the King about Sauron's failure to infer that 'they want to what? destroy the Ring').

The topic of sadistic greed of Sauron, however, has Tolkien's Christianity in a biasing (again the legal idea of bias works well here) motivation of perpetrators. The bias tends to obviate any likelihood that Sauron had any beneficent motivation. We know this is incorrect. His Orcs were sentients, and had will. He wanted to thrive, and had a parental relationship with them. And frankly, they were much better at coping with dust and impoverished environments than vain, conceited Elves, determined to make creepy artifacts in their own images, which is a nausea at times I have about how Elves make things. At times, I see Sauron's point about Galadriel, whose vanity had NO end (e.g. she was "UNfriends" with Feanor "FOREVER"), and that mirror was offensive. Anyhows, hahah that's for another topic, and no doubt it upsets Elf lovers.

More recently, however, I've wondered a great deal about the Ring Command upon Sméagol at Orodruin. If you place Gollum betwixt the Barad Dur and Frodo, then the 'Vanity Inversion' (theory, okay ) of the Ring Command it was that struck Gollum OF the Ring, and not BY Frodo's residual Hobbitish Flesh. I wonder, then, was it instead, the Vanity Vector traces to the Barad Dur, implying that Gollum's awareness of Frodo made Gollum enabled with Free Will, at exactly that point forwards.

At the Sammath Naur, then, Gollum and Sméagol both exert Free Will in the Sméagol/Deagol analogue, this time, with Frodo in the 'Smeagol' role and Gollum atoning for Deagol. This is a Vanity Direction theory. It's premise is that the Ring not Frodo self-commanded OF itself OF Sauronic Origin, directionally TO Gollum, WITHOUT Frodo's contribution.

I also have a 'Sauronic Foresight' hypothesis, if anyone is interested, after this post is looked at.
A call to my lost pals. Dine, Orcy_The_Green_Wonder, Droga, Lady Rolindin. Gellion, Thasis, Tenzhi. I was Silmarien Aldalome. Candlekeep. WotC. Can anyone help?

Last edited by Ivriniel; 06-02-2017 at 06:53 AM.
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