Thread: Sarumans Orcs
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:13 PM   #29
Man-of-the-Wold
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin
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Tolkien

In reply to Galorme, I would say that Gandalf's dialogue with Elrond in Film I about mixing Orcs with Goblin-men does not exactly fit with anything from The Books, but it is not a great transgression, such as dropping Glorfindal in lieu of Arwen (which I for one fully approve of as a positive form of film adaptation/character compositing).

The point of Gandalf's news to Elrond (though not by way of the Council) is that the Traitor has this army. Film I is not saying that Saruman alone has created Uruk-Hai, though Lurtz and crew are his Uruk-Hai. Conceivably, in communicating with Sauron (after which he says to a lowly Orc "We've got work to do"), he may have received instructions about how to assemble a Uruk. With helpful "Arts of Devilry" hints from the Eye himself.

To say that this process involves taking one part Orc and one part Goblin-Man (which would be a Man with goblin/ockish blood/traits) is not really apostasy. Some here at the Barrow-downs, such as Bill Ferny seem to side with that sort of interpretation.

I think the Books suggest nothing more than that the introducion of half-orcs, orc-men, & goblin-men is a type of experimentation attributable to Saruman during the time immediately preceding the War of the Rings. While possible, there not necessarily anything The Books to suggest that Men were used in the orignal breeding and creation of the Uruk-Hai by Sauron, which first appear in a recognizable way hundreds of years earlier, and the genesis of which might go back to previous Ages.
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