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Old 10-16-2003, 10:06 PM   #45
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

In interest of time, I'll stick to my main concern: you have not yet shown me where Tolkien says the Mouth of Sauron will be the ruler of Isengard. Still waiting on that.

"Liked the way you ignored" the following indisputable points:

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Khamul is called "Sauron's lt." even though it is clear that the Witch-King outranks him - this is a clear indication that the title of "lieutenant" does not mean that he (or anyone referred to as such) is second in command, nor is there only one lieutenant.
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No, it shows that the Mouth thinks being a spokesman for a godlike entity is of greater worth than being king of a kingdom that he believes is about to be destroyed.
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While Gandalf is sent from the King of Arda, far closer to God than Sauron?
With Manwe's 'messenger' being on the same level as Sauron, even, and said to be the only one in Middle-earth who could defeat him...

And most of all

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Looking in the Messenger's eyes they read his thought. He was to be that lieutenant, and gather all that remained of the West under his sway; he would be their tyrant and they his slaves.
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This is the only hint I see, but it is not a statement by the Mouth; it is merely a mention of the twinkle in his eye, thinking himself to be that one to dwell in Isengard. Would he definitely be that one? We don't know. Would that person definitely be second in commmand? We're not positive.
I find this a very out-of-place point:

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3. A creature which inspires absolute terror in mortal men, which causes them to flee, is not going to be the best candidate to control tribute kingdoms. The tribute kingdoms would presumably pay taxes etc to Sauron and to control this you need to be able to meet with their representatives. Something that the Nazgul would be unable to do.
Sauron himself fits that very description.

[ October 17, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]
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