Thread: Dior
View Single Post
Old 03-20-2002, 02:13 PM   #5
Voronwe
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Gondolin
Posts: 413
Voronwe has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The 'Judgement of Manwe' referred to in Thingol's quote (which, I think, was from a previous thread) is to be found in HoME V. It is part of the material that was used to make up the final chapter of the Silmarillion, though Chris Tolkien didn't actually include all of it in the Silm.

The judgement takes place after Eärendil delivers his message to the Valar.
Quote:
Then Manwë gave judgement and he said: 'To Eärendel I remit the ban, and the peril that he took upon himself out of love for the Two Kindreds shall not fall on him; neither shall it fall upon Elwing who entered into peril for love of Eärendel: save only in this: they shall not ever walk again among Elves of Men in the Outer Lands. Now all those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; but in this matter the power of doom is given to me. This is my decree: to Eärendel and to Elwing and to their sons shall be given leave each to choose freely under which kindred they shall be judged.
Compare this to the equivalent passage in the published Silmarillion, which, as well as being quite extensively edited, lacks the part about anyone of mortal descent being mortal unless there was a special exception.

Quote:
But when all was spoken, Manwë gave judgement, and he said: 'In this matter the power of doom is given to me. The peril that he ventured for love of the Two Kindreds shall not fall upon Eärendil, nor shall it fall upon Elwing his wife, who entered into peril for love of him; but they shall not walk again ever among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands. And this is my decree concerning them: to Eärendil and to Elwing, and to their sons, shall be given leave each to choose freely to which kindred their fates shall be joined, and under which kindred they shall be judged.'
I don't know why Chris Tolkien didn't include the entire passage from HoME V in the Silm. According to this passage, at least, Dior and his sons would have been mortal (unless Manwë with the authority of Eru made them a special case, which is quite possible given their circumstances).

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ]
__________________
"If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes
Voronwe is offline   Reply With Quote