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Old 03-06-2002, 08:53 PM   #53
Thingol
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 259
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Sting

I believe the two conflicting quotes that Obloquy was referring to are the one by Legolas and the one by Voronwe. As Obloquy pointed out that by interpreting Voronwe's quote in the matter in which you prefer it comes into conflict with Legolas' quote in The Fellowship of the Ring. In a conflict between the two quotes Legolas' quote has to be considered cannon because it is from The Lord of the Rings. Because of this it makes more sense to interpret Voronwe's quote in the manner in which myself and Obloquy have previously stated. Let me attempt one more analogy on Balrogs and Dragons. Sauron is diminutive compared to a Dragon such as Smaug or Glaurung, but would you say that a Dragon would be able to defeat Sauron in a duel? I hope not. Allow me to take it one step further, Melkor, after he destroys the two trees, is also tiny compared to a Dragon, but even after Melkor squandered most of his power I would not say that he was weaker than even Ancalgon the Black. The Balrogs were of the same order of Sauron and akin to Melkor, being his servants from before Arda was created. Manwe tells Feanor that even if he were 100 times more powerful his war on Melkor would still be hopeless. This is not because the elves could never physically defeat Melkor, (They kept him bottled up for several hundred years, and if it wasn't for Ulfang they probably would have been able to destroy his armies and break Angbad) it was because Melkor's spirit was too great to be conquered by anyone but the Valar. Unlike the Dragon's Melkor could not have been physically destroyed unless his spirit could be conquered. Even if Fingolofin had stabbed Melkor 100 times, he still would not have killed him. The same seems to be true of the Balrogs.
Quote:
Do as I say! Swords are no more use here. Go!...Over the bridge! Fly! This is a foe beyond any of you. I must hold the narrow way. Fly!
-Gandalf, The Bridge of Khazud-Dum

On the other hand Dragon's do not need to be defeated on a spiritual level to be killed. In more general terms, if a Balrog had marched (possibly even flew [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]) into Lake Town and started destroying the town, Bard could have shot the Balrog as full as a pin cushion with arrows and the Balrog still would not have died. In the Seven Thanes of Morgoth thread Obloquy eloquently states that in their final conception Tolkien envisioned Balrogs as a kind of creature that had no match among the Free Peoples, more powerful than Elves, and virtually untouchable by Men.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]
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Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.
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