[Kuruharan]

I like the section on the nature of magic. That is probably one of the most misunderstood aspects of Tolkien's world.

If this is not the case then how else can you explain the futility of Fingolfin's duel or Manwe's statement that Feanor's war against Melkor was doomed to failure?

I explain it by saying that we are not talking about the same thing. You are talking about Elves vs. Valar. I'm talking about Balrogs (Maiar) vs. Dragons (Maiar).

I think that in both Tolkien's mythos and in reality (on which his mythos is healthily based), the physical and spiritual dimensions are not so easily teased out. I would go so far as to say that they cannot be so teased out one from the other.

Excellent way of looking at it. That was more or less what I was trying to get out, although you did it in a much more coherent fashion.

However, I believe that the spiritual battle is more important than the physical battle, even if they are occuring at the same time.

You're still looking at them as being two different things. What littlemanpoet is saying is that the two are closely interconnected, not that they are just occurring at the same time.

Tolkien was very careful with the use of language, and I doubt it is coincidental that the Maia are referred to as servants and the rest of Melkor's armies as creatures.

I still say, in spite of obloquy's objection, that 'creatures' was a negative and all inclusive term for the entirety of Morgoth's forces.

I think this pretty much proves that Voronwe's comment does not conflict with Legolas' comment to Celeborn

I can see that I am going to have to go on my big, long digression. (oh, goodie [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) Unfortunately, it is very long and I can't do it now, I'll have to come back and do it later. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

(I also noticed that neither Celeborn nor Galadriel correct Legolas).

Had either one of them ever been in the presence of a Balrog or a Dragon? Would they know?

Again, I have to go back to the point of the Balrogs escorting Glaurung at the Battle of Sudden Flame, as if they were subordinated to him in some way.

[ March 09, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]