[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

To be more precise I should have said "-wē" names, because all four of the names I was discussing have to be some form of Primitive Quendian. Voronwë is a Quenya name; I think the vowel sound is actually different, because Nōwē has a long vowel, while Voronwë's umlaut is just marking that the vowel is pronounced.

I'm well aware of that, but I'm (generally) too lazy to copy/paste strange characters these days, unless they're part of a quote.

Tolkien Gateway lists eight -wē names from "Cuivienen and the Great March": Morwë, Nurwë, Ingwë, Finwë, Elwë, Olwë, Nowë, Lenwë. All of them seem to have been energetic leaders, and given we know there were other name-forms around at the time (Ilion, Ingwil), it's hard to see that as pure coincidence. Notably, if Morwë and Nurwë's leadership of the Avari coexists with the presence of the Unbegotten at the Great Debate, the -wē leaders have more authority than the six who founded the entire race.

Again, I know, since I'm one of the more active editors on TG - however, I believe that the characters of Morwe and Nurwe were ultimately abandoned.

I think it's very plausible that all of those leaders were born in the Golden Age of Cuivienen - after they were found by Orome, when there were gods and powers walking among them on a daily basis. (NoME says that the Istari and Melian were the Guardians of Cuivienen even when the various Valar weren't present.) The elves who take the lead in big decisions are the ones who have known the Powers literally since birth.

That's about a 200 year span (per NoME). Ingwe was a generation up from Finwe and Elwe, but he was only a few decades older than them; his family must include multiple generations of "later babies" to push it down the ladder to the end of the generation. Cirdan, however, needs to share a recent ancestor with Thingol, so can't have diverged too much in the timing of the babies. I still think he's most likely a cousin.

I'm not sure how Ingwe being part of the generation above Finwe/Elwe/Olwe has any relation to Cirdan (possibly) belonging to the same generation as Ingwe: he could easily have been a younger sibling of (one of) Thingol's parents.

Um, hmm. Not sure on "Olwë and his own nearest kin" implying Olwe is one of his nearest kin. I think it might imply the opposite - "I ran into my boss and my closest friends" doesn't mean my boss is my buddy! I feel like "nearest" implies parents, siblings, etc, not cousins of any degree. But it is all total speculation, of course!

You're right! Which is why I asked about different interpretations of this quote in the first place - though I do wonder about your interpretation of that quote, since Cirdan is held in such a very high regard by Thingol (and everyone else, for that matter).

This, of course, could've been just a case of high-positioned Elves in Beleriand (such as Thingol) recognizing Cirdan's inherent talents, but given that Cirdan ruled an entire realm (Falas), I can't help but wonder (Tolkien being Tolkien) if Cirdan was very closely related to Thingol/Olwe.



P.S. Were Enel and Enelye silver-haired? Was it their line of descent that introduced silver/white hair among the Teleri? I don't think there's a concrete answer, but to me it seems natural.