[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

I haven't been here for a while, and this'll have to be short, but hopefully meaningful.

Any input is appreciated.

Just to play devil's advocate

Cool! I work in the Devil's R&D division; didn't know we were in the same firm.

Both times, they're giving messages of both hope and realism, saying that although there'll always be trouble in the world, we shouldn't think about what to do for the trouble in the future, but to think about what we can do to help now, and by doing so, we can make sure that those who come in the future will have a fair chance of doing the same. Whilst we can never hope to win completely, we can still give our best effort to win for the present; to show defiance against defeat and failure. Basically, to use a beautiful line from both book and movie...

I don't see the similarities that you do, but that's just me. Is there anything in "The Last Debate" that may have inspired Aragorn's movie speech?

Originally Posted by Essex

No, really I'm glad you got your independance. It was about time someone else ran the world. We had our go, and decided to pass the baton.

Thanks. That would explain how we 'won' in 1776 though General Washington's army lost many a battle..you were just making it look good until you could get safely across the Atlantic. "Maybe they won't realize that we left them holding the bag until it's too late..."

But really, Independance Day is so corny, - especially the bill pullman speech mentioned above - I watched the movie in America whilst on holiday there and when everyone else was cheering, me and the missus were rolling up with laughter!

Okay, to each his own. Did Aragorn's speech make you feel as you (I assume) felt when the Rohirrim showed up on the Pelennor? I wasn't as fired up. Note that watching "Independence Day" at 3 AM tends to cloud my rationality.

But why oh why do these arrogant movie directors think that America has to save the World every time? Not a slight agianst your country, just your film directors. Yes, I know it's American money blah blah, but really let's have a film where the World acts against alien enemies, not just the USA getting us out of the hole.

Hmm...these movies, created to sell toys and reap profit, are primarily targeted to an American audience. Though some films do better in foreign distribution than in the domestic market, it's not typical. So, for the Americans, the good guys and heroes, for the most part, would be us. Think that James Bond is an exception. And, not to insult anyone's origin, but I think that many here aren't really sure that there's a real world beyond our shores.

On another point regarding this, I think the world's problems with each other (i.e. Country v Country wars etc, religious conflicts) will only be finally solved when an Alien intelligence does try to take us over. Then we will ALL have a common cause to fight for and will concentrate on trying to kill them instead!

Much agreed. Think that humanity still has 'tribal genes' and it's going to take some time before we leave them behind. Also, many peoples cannot think 'long term' as I'm not sure that we're wired for it. Anyway, another favorite in this theme is V where aliens set up a Nazi-like totalitarian state in the USoA (and around the world). Of course it's 'us' that kicks the aliens back into space, naturally...

Anyway, enough of my rant, but I LOVE the MoS scene. I think the character and the way he acts are masterful. The voice, the teeth, the way he moves his head - his arrogance, his short sightedness, his lies - they all work so well.

We could have spent more time with him; the moment could have played out longer.

And it wasn't a Parley by the way. Aragorn was quickly stopping the rot, not wanting the MoS to instill any more doubt in their minds..... (steps back after re-lighting the blue touchpaper)

Here we go! So what you're saying is that the lies of the MoS were effective, and Aragorn the Barbarian couldn't counter them with steel words. Nor, I guess, could Gandalf, armed with Narya. Wasn't it you that said that during the siege of Minas Tirith that the soldiers near Gandalf weren't as affected by the Nazgul as were those not so close? Did Gandalf lose everything when he lost his staff to the Witch-King? Can he no longer inspire hope? Aragorn, in Seq22 seems to have lost his hope as well, and so methinks that the returned King was just adding to, dare I say, his head count.

Why not a battle between the MoS and Aragorn? Anyway...