View Single Post
Old 09-12-2004, 07:22 PM   #9
Man-of-the-Wold
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin
Posts: 239
Man-of-the-Wold has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien Oh that old Chestnut

The lines at issue are in The Lord of the Rings Appendix A, I(i), which contains some minor technical errors with respect the rulers of Númenor and so forth, anyway, at least with the first Ballantine Books Edition that I have in front of me. This issue could likewise be dismissed as another such error, but it may also be stated somewhere else. The following is the Appendix A paragraph:
Quote:
There were three unions of the Eldar and the Edain: Lúthien and Beren; Idril and Tuor; Arwen and Aragorn. By the last the long-sundered branches of the Half-elven [Peredhil] were renunited and their line was restored.
Besides the conclusion that the omission of Imrazôr and Mithrellas is simply an oversight, in that Tolkien definitely had it in mind respective to the observations about the Princes of Dol Amroth in The Lord of the Rings, I would make a number of qualifying points:

1. JRRT does not say "only" three unions. To be pendantic, he is simply referring to three unions that in some way really matter. What makes them matter is not only their historical importance, but also that they are "royal" unions. That would be an adjective that an unabashed traditionalist like Tolkien might have thought unnecessary in terms of its obvious significance. For Americans, like me, who tend to be natually "republican" in our outlook, this makes various Tolkien issues, especially those of Arwen/Elrond, much harder to appreciate. Even a modern British Tory would not generally be able to relate to Tolkien's Monarchist views, which even he would have seen as moot in terms of modern politics.

2. Neither Imrazôr nor Mithrellas are of any royal line, and there union is of much less historical significance, and it certainly doesn't carry on the supposedly unfailing line of Lúthien. In The Unfinished Tales the impression is that the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth showed the effects of the intermingling in terms of physical appearance, but it did not necessarily endow them with greater nobility than that of any other of the truer Númenórean lines.

3. Like Aragorn, Imrazôr was a Dúnedain, to be sure. Technically, one must also say that Mithrellas belonged to the Eldar, but this is a grey area. As someone seeking to go into the West with Amroth and Nimrodel, she surely must be of Nandorin descent, as one must assume a fair number of the Silvan Elves in Lothlorien would be [see below]. But still she was not as "Eldarin" as the other elf-women noted, and in the Appendices, JRRT simplifies the whole thing about East-elves and West-elves, and certainly does not explicitly address the Nandor.

4. Despite being half Maian, Lúthien was undeniably counted among the Children of Eru and among the Eldar, as Melian had taken the form of an Elf in joining with Thingol. Later, Lúthien became mortal like Men, but not of Men. So, that union is fine. Idril may have retained her longeval existence, which was bestowed on Tuor as the counterpoint to Lúthien's choice.

5. Dior, Elwing and Eärendil, as well as Elrond and Elros, were all among the true Peredhil. They were mortal until given the choice (which was apparently not offered to the offspring of later elf/man unions, such as Imrazôr and Mithrellas). The Peredhil were neither Eldar nor Edain. So, their unions do not necessarily count. (Though Nimloth was an Eldar)

6. Arwen though was born and lived as an Eldarin Elf, and she did not become mortal until she married Aragorn (or irrevocably chose to do so, if one looks to the recent films), pursuant to her father's departure into the West. Also, technically, she was only 16.25 percent human, to begin with.

7. Aragorn despite his remarkable ancestory was still 100 percent a man as were all of the decedants of Elros.

EAST ELVES


With respect to questions of Avari/east-elves, J.R.R. Tolkien seems to have semi-intentionally blurred the matter of the Teleri-Nandor (initially Noldor-Danian), which split off before crossing the Misty Mountains, remembering also that there were other offshoots and lingerers (almost exclusively Teleri) between the first and second sundering of the Great March.

Consistently, the terms "East-elves" and “Eldar” should not be seen as mutually exclusive. In fact, the Nandor, and later the Silvan Elves in large part, were to some degree both: they were neither true Eldar, nor true Avari.

The true Avari were of all three kindreds, and at most, only some of them had gone just a very little way on the Great March before turning back completely and returning to Cuiviénen. But later they did spread out, and some probably wondered westward and joined up with Telerin Elves, who had turned aside in regions around what became the Sea of Rhûn or lands further west. This happened over ages and ages of time.

The Teleri, who turned aside at the Misty Mountains and were led by Lenwë south along the eastern side the Misty Mountains—i.e., the Nandor—eventually spread (as well) throughout southern Eriador and probably into what became Gondor through the early Second Age. Recall that Shelob had once had Elven victims.

These were not safe areas, however. Morgoth and his creatures terrorized areas east of the Ered Luin, hence the removal of many if not most of these Elves to Ossiriand under Denethor's leadership. Later in the Second Age, these Nandorin elves of Eriador and the lower Anduin would have fallen victim to Sauron's hegemony as it issued out of Mordor.

The Nandor who survived, but had not become the Green Elves of Beleriand, ended up mostly in the Upper Vales of Anduin. Here they acquired help from Grey and Green-Elves out of Beleriand, as well as Galadriel, and later some High-Elven refugees from Eregion. Quite probably, Amroth and his father were direct descendents of Lenwë.

Through the Second Age and Third Age these "Silvan Elves" were more and more concentrated in either Lothlórien or the northeast sector of Greenwood the Great, especially when it became Mirkwood under the Necromancer's influence. The rise of Dol Guldor thus contributed to the decline of intercourse between these two remnant—but still throughout the Third Age—thriving communities.

Who were they then by this point? Still to some extent "Eldarin" Nandor, to be sure, as would be necessary for explaining why Amroth, Nimrodel and others would have been drawn and allowed to pass over the Sea. Like Legolas, who might have been at least half-Nandor, these Eastern Eldar seem to have gone always through Gondor, where their ancestors may have also once wandered. The Grey Havens seem mostly reserved for the Beleriandic Eldar.

The Silvan Elves were not so much Nandorin in any pure or direct sense, however. Likely, they were augmented with other (Telerin) lingerers from the Great March east of Anduin, who had eventually wandered further westward, as well as significant numbers of true Avari. There were also eastward-moving Laiquendi and Sindar, who desired to return to simpler ways and were assimilated as part of Silvan society.

Arguably, this best describes the Wood-Elves (and raft-elves) of Thranduil's realm by the late Third-Age, which probably had significant representation from Beleriandic Elves or their descendents—as much as 10 percent or even more—but included no High-Elves. The great majority were likely still of Nandorin-blood (20–40 percent) and those of more eastern extraction (50–70 percent). The language spoken there seems disputed. It may have been a surviving "Silvan" dialect akin to original Telerin, or they may have mostly relied the Common Speech, since they were not too terribly isolated from other peoples, and it may have been a convenient lingua franca among differing Eldarin and Avarian tongues.

The Galadrim used a Sindarin dialect, and it seems likely that a great many of their numbers were Beleriandic. Perhaps more distinct from the main society, there might have also been a small number of High-Elves there, like Galadriel. Possibly a majority were still non–Laiquendi Nandor. Those of more eastern extraction represented a smaller portion than they would have in Thranduil's realm, but possibly were still quite common.

So, in summary, there is gradation and some non-certitude as regards “East-elves” and “Eldar,” which may not have been unacceptable to J.R.R. Tolkien, in this particular case.

These amalgamated realms of elves in Wilderland were also something of an exception to the rule about Elves in general. By the time of the War of the Rings, they were not really fading but rather quite vibrant. Consequently, it was most appropriate that Legolas, rather than a Noldorin lord, was a member of the Fellowship. He was at least partially of Sindarin descent, but he was also of a Third-Age generation from Elven lands that were still significant in the world at that time.

[Originally from a January 25, 2003, posting by, Man-of-the-Wold ]
__________________
The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.
Man-of-the-Wold is offline   Reply With Quote