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Old 12-03-2018, 04:05 PM   #9
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Welcome gandalf85!

1) Thanks for pointing out that typo.
2) Interesting question. This has to be discussed. For the time being I did use whatever Tolkien used in texts that I collected together. But you are right some consistency would probably be nice. For me Ered Lindon is the later name in the Middel-earth time line, since that name must have become common when Lindon was occupied by Nolder in the second age. But however both names are clearly valid in all time so we could as well keep them parallel, as ArcusCalion suggested.
3) A very good catch! You’re a right if the title is fitting is based on the definition of the term ‘Silvan Elves’. Since Galadirel and Celeborn are Lord and Lady of Eriador, the wandering companies of that land are clearly Nandor. But it is an open question of the Nandor of Eriaodr are a subgroup of the Silvan Elves, since the first definition we get is: ‘The Silvan Elves (Tawarwaith) were in origin Teleri, and so remoter kin of the Sindar, though even longer separated from them than the Teleri of Valinor. They were descended from those of the Teleri who, on the Great Journey, were daunted by the Misty Mountains and lingered in the Vale of Anduin, and so never reached Beleriand or the Sea. They were thus closer akin to the Nandor (otherwise called the Green-elves) of Ossiriand, who eventually crossed the mountains and came at last into Beleriand.‘ The reference to the kinship is here to the Nandor of Ossiriand in special. I think that this makes a difference since these Beleriandic Nandor could be taken as removed from the more rustic Silvan Elves by their contact to the Noldor and specially the Sindar.
The settlement of Galdriel and Celeborn in Lorien is so much later that it would fully destroy any chronological telling, so I don’t think we can add that.
Asked by Gandalf85:
Quote:
Are we attempting to make the sequence of chapters chronological to the best of our ability?
I hesitate to answer that question with ‘yes’, so ‘the best of our ability’ would be a way around any problem a clear ‘yes’ would create. Let’s put it thus: Chronological placement was a factor, but building logical entities with some cohesion was also considered.
However, even if the Nandor of Eriador are considered a separate people from the Silvan Elves, I think the title might still stand since we nicely meshed in references to the Silan Elves at the start and the end of the chapter.
I agree that this is difficult to figure out from our text, but we do not have anything better to work with and what we presented was the best arrangement we could find for the very complex movement of Galadriel and Celeborn, as ArcusCalion and I agreed on as our working hypothesis. It is not made easier by the fact that we tell part of it in retrospective, but I don’t think there is any other choice. To lift your confusion, an analysis of the text like this might help:
- ‘… Galadriel and Celeborn departed over Ered Lindon before the end of the First Age’
- ‘When Celeborn returned later to Doriath she [Galadriel] passed east over the mountains [Hithaeglir] and forsook Beleriand, and first of all the Noldor came to the inner lands; and too late she heard the summons of Eönwë[ at the End of the First Age to join him in the fight against Morgoth].’ [Nonetheless she came to Beleriand after the fight was over, see over next point.]
- ‘Celeborn, ... had escaped the sack of Doriath and would not leave Middle-earth’ [at the beginning of the Second Age, when Eönwë departed with most of the Elves of Beleriand]
- ‘For love of Celeborn ... (and probably with some pride of her own, for she [Galadriel] had been one of those eager to adventure there), she did not go West at the Downfall of Melkor, but crossed Ered Lindon with Celeborn and came into Eriador. ... and for a while they dwelt in the country about Lake Nenuial (Evendim, north of the Shire).’
4) Yes, it is redundant, but I think that is bearable at least. In other places we have once and again Gwindor son of Guillin.
5) We used these paragraphs later, so I as well think we cannot use them here.

Respectfully
Findegil
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