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Old 09-26-2017, 01:49 PM   #6
Findegil
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Kullulin and Silindrin: I agree that we have to do something about these in DoV, with the effect that Ungoliant has drained these sources of light. Since DoV anyhow needs an revision, we could simply keep that in mind, and care for it later. But here is my first go at it:
Quote:
§58d It is told that even as Fëanor and Fingolfin stood before Manwë, ... And still {Ungoliantë}[Ungoliant] thirsted; and she went to the great Wells of VardaDoV-DV-11<editorial addition even to Cullulin and Silindirn> and drained them<editorial addition all> dry. And as she drank, she belched forth vast vapours, and in their midst she swelled to a shape more huge and hideous than even her most lustful dream had hoped ever to achieve. At last, knowing that the time was short, she hastened away, north, to the tryst that Melkor had made with her, and did not mean to keep.
SM-EX-07.5: It is true that ‘heart of Arda’ in the round earth concept has a special meaning, but that does not make it unusable in the flat earth version, at least in my opinion. I would let it stand. Anyhow it is meant figuratively.

SM-EX-10.9: Well AAm is the later text, that was my reason to use it. But I can see your reason and agree to restore the reading of LQ on the basis that this might be a proposed change that we cannot incoperate because we lake the needed information.

SM-EX-11.1: For me the fact that this attack on the Sun does reappear in such a late version, is rather an argument to include it. Tolkien never abandoned the idea that the sun was less ‘enchanted’ then the Moon and therefore times of moonshine were rather the times for the Elves than the day of full sunshine. In the intermediate interations of the mythology Tolkien brings up some rather week arguments why this should be the case. Thus the re-established attack on and subsequent absent of Árië comes in handy.
About Morogth it is told that he leaves Angband only once; we are neither told for what reason nor for how long. The rest is read into the passage implicit, by our knowledge of the story about Men’s corruption. Anyhow I would think that both corruption of Men and the ravishing Árië were connected in time. And we learn in the ‘Tale of Adanel’ that Morogth was not all the time present at the dwelling place of Men. So he could have the opportunity. (By the way, the fight of Fingolfin against Morgoth is directly before the gate of Angband. Since Fingolfin hammered on that door. I would assume from the latest description of the Nirnaeth that Angabnd had a kind of outwork and that the fight happen inside that outer fortification and with that could be said inside Angband, so that for this occasion Morgoth literary had not to leave Angband.)

SM-EX-11.2: For a (forced) departure from Eä the word ‘death’ is very appropriate as we learn in MT when it speaks about the execution of Morgoth after the War of Wrath.

SM-EX-11.25: Well, if this could only refer to the Last Battle I would agree that it contradicts the Second prophesy, but it could in this case refer to the time after the War of Wrath and Morgoth execution as it is told in MT, were no executioner is explicitly named.

SM-EX-11.3: Even without leaving Angband he could gather spirits out of the void. As we are told in Ósanwe-kenta communication of thought is not restricted by space. And we can be sure that early allies of Melkor lingering in the void would still listen to his call.

SM-EX-11.34: I agree that the grammar is not good. But either the insert from AAm has to go here or we would leave it out. If placed later, it is rendered seens less being out of sequence. What about this:
Quote:
SM-EX-11.3 <MT; 2 Outline But Melkor gathered in the Void spirits of cold SM-EX-11.32{&c.} and<AAm shadow> and suddenly assailed {it}the Moon, b]SM-EX-11.34[/b] <AAm and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars> {driving}And the attack drove out the {Vala}[Maiar] Tilion. The Moon was thereafter {long}[a] while steerless and vagrant and called Rána{ (neuter)} SM-EX-11.36 <LQ the wayward>.>
SM-EX-11.4: For what reason that ‘again’ is needed? I agree that it might make the stlye better, but that has so far never been an argument.

SM-EX-11.7: A lost battle does make you the loser of a war. In the end Tilion was victorious capturing back the Moon and prevailing in the farther defence of it.

Respectfully
Findegil
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