View Single Post
Old 06-02-2017, 08:45 PM   #14
Shade of Carn Dm
Ivriniel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 415
Ivriniel has just left Hobbiton.
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
So, this is a subject which really intrigues me. Tolkien, in no small part thanks to his sincere Christian convictions, did not seem to cast the Orcs as being wholly evil and capable of good - though this was obviously difficult thanks to Sauron's malignant influence over them.

But, after the War of the Ring, do you think any Orcs could have become integrated into societies such as Gondor or Rohan? Would the people there have accepted this? As King, would Aragon have allowed it? Certainly, from what we see of their speech patterns and character, they seem to have far more in common with men in Tolkien's world than the more aloof and scholarly Elves.

Judging from what we saw of The New Shadow, it seems clear that in Gondorian society, Orcs were not present, and took on the role of a boogeyman. Allowing naughty children to "play Orc" and act like delinquents.

But do you believe it was ever possible for them to join human societies once Sauron was defeated?

The Uruk Hai were Saruman's blending of races, implying sexual contact in procreation between humanoids. It seems to me, then that the two races were I) sentient (as we know), ii) birthed by womb iii) intermingle-able.

The Elvish precedents on Imrahil, etc remind us that Elves and Men were, as children of Illuvatar, able to blend. We seem to be told that Morgoth somehow 'made' the Orcs, although I have been told here that the "warped Elf" theory a.k.a. "abducted Cuivinen Elves" is not Tolkien's final word here.

In any case, it is only hatred that divided the races of Eru (and I'm betting Eru had mercy for the Orcish sentience). I do not think well of Elvish hatred of Orc and vice versa, and obviously as sentient races, they had potential to see life, birth, death, hunger and suffering in the other race. Whatever happened to empathic capacity and Elvendom?

I do not support any view that essentialises a race as 'wholly' good or evil, and the evil is to blackball any race, en bloc. We also know the Elves certainly had a psycho streak. Eol, for example, tossed of precipice in overt vengeful ideation, for the death of Aredhel. She was not very interesting anyway.

A call to my lost pals. Dine, Orcy_The_Green_Wonder, Droga, Lady Rolindin. Gellion, Thasis, Tenzhi. I was Silmarien Aldalome. Candlekeep. WotC. Can anyone help?
Ivriniel is offline   Reply With Quote