Thread: Glorfindel
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:01 PM   #2
ArcusCalion
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I have some minor comments, most of which remove any 'commentative' or 'ambiguous' wording left in after Fin's edits. I think in Fin's draft it is presented as someone making conjectures about what might have happened, which is not in keeping with the entire rest of the body of work, which is presented as an authoritative story. If it really must be kept ambiguous, then I would argue it should be moved to Volume 3, as a work of Scholarly deduction rather than historical narrative. I do not think this is necessary, and so I have instead edited it further to turn it into a historical account in keeping with all the other chapters.

GLOR-SL-04: I agree with this removal, but in the paragraph following I would make the following change:
Quote:
As for the former: he}He was slain in the Fall of Gondolin at the end of the First Age, and GLOR-SL-04.5 {if}was a chieftain of that city {must have been}and a Noldo, one of the Elf-lords in the host of King {Turukáno (}Turgon{)}.
This is because from the Fall of Gondolin as edited and according to the later texts, not all of the people were Noldor, nor indeed were all the lords. Therefore it does not follow that if Glorfindel was a lord of the city then he must be a Noldo, since that is not true.

GLOR-SL-07: I would change this thus to remove the ambiguity of the story. I moved the marker slightly earlier.
Quote:
GLOR-SL-07 {From what is said of} Glorfindel {in The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings it is evident that he} was an Elda of high ....
GLOR-SL-09: I agree with this change, but afterwards there is a bit calling Turgon their king. Is this correct? IS he not rather their lord, and Fingolfin their king? Or is he simply the high king, and Turgon and all the others were kings as well?

GLOR-SL-13/14: I think as Fin left it, it sounds too speculative and conjectural, and so I edited it further, combining 13 and 14 together:
Quote:
GLOR-SL-13/14 {(11) It is therefore entirely in keeping with the general design of The Silmarillion to describe the subsequent history of Glorfindel thus.} After his purging of any guilt ....
GLOR-SL-14.5: Later in this paragraph, there is a reference to Gandalf being mentioned in the Silmarillion as being a friend of the Children. This is actually in the Valaquenta, and as the two are separate works in our draft, we should change it to reflect that. So I simply changed {The Silmarillion}[The Valaquenta].

GLOR-SL-16.5: The entire second-to-last paragraph is Tolkien speculating about when Glorfindel might have returned. It has to go if we are presenting it as a historical fact and not a scholarly essay, and so I have removed it:
Quote:
GLOR-SL-16.5 {When did Glorfindel return to Middle-earth? .... importance than seems fitting.
We may then best suppose that} Glorfindel returned ...
GLOR-SL-16.7: In the next paragraph we run into several similar issues. Firstly:
Quote:
... Sauron were at last perceived by them. GLOR-SL-16.7 {It might, therefore, have been as early as Second Age 1200, when Sauron came in person to Lindon, and attempted to deceive Gil-galad, but was rejected and dismissed. [Footnote: No doubt because Gil-galad had by then discovered that Sauron was busy in Eregion, but had secretly begun the making of a stronghold in Mordor. (Maybe already an Elvish name for that region, because of its volcano Orodruin and its eruptions - which were not made by Sauron but were a relic of the devastating works of Melkor in the long First Age.) GLOR-SL-17 [See note 15.]] But it may have been, perhaps more probably, as late as} It was c.1600, the Year of Dread ....
I decided if we were to pick one of the two variants given, we must choose the one Tolkien says is more likely, which he gives as the second option, and we must therefore remove all the references to the former. However, the description of the origin of Orodruin I moved into its own footnote later on here:
Quote:
... completed and the One Ring forged GLOR-SL-16.8 in Mordor, [Footnote: {Maybe already}Already an Elvish name for that region, because of its volcano Orodruin and its eruptions - which were not made by Sauron but were a relic of the devastating works of Melkor in the long First Age.] and Celebrimbor ...
After this he gives reasons why 1200 is unlikely, which I have removed:
Quote:
... trap into which he had fallen. GLOR-SL-16.9 {For in 1200, though he was filled with anxiety, Gil-galad still felt strong and able to treat Sauron with contempt. Also at that time his Númenórean allies were beginning to make strong permanent havens for their great ships, and also many of them had actually begun to dwell there permanently.} In 1600 it became clear to all the ....
These are all my changes. I apologize for the length of the post, and also if I came across as unappreciative. This is a very difficult chapter to edit, considering the difficult nature of the text. I only give these comments because I think I must and I feel strongly about the reasoning behind them, even though I imagine Fin will disagree with them.
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