[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Gee, I thought this discussion was long dead. There is so little to go on about Frodo. He's elusive. I think Tolkien deliberately left him vague so we could fill in our own ideals. It's a good way to make someone larger than life, without making them... larger than life, i.e. not believable. If you let people fill in what they want, they'll believe what they want. My conclusion in "Frodo or the Ring" was that the ring did not have the power to directly force a person to act, but could subvert the mind, through a person's weaknesses, especially their desire for power (the pointers from Galadriel on how the ring is mastered are well taken). We’re never told what that desire was in Frodo, though we were told Sam’s.

What clues do we have on what finally broke Frodo's will?

Sam's visions, and Frodo's frequent descriptions of seeing a wheel of fire. – The thought of it was overwhelming him… what thought? He would often cower facing Barad-dur. Then his hand would stray to the ring. The clue to what’s happening there is in the Barrowdowns, when he faced the barrow-wight. His wish to protect himself I believe, his sense of hopelessness for his friends outweighing his wish to try to save them because he fears it’s not possible. That he himself is not capable. The ring is magnifying that hopelessness and self-protective fear, with the thought that putting it on will save him from the Dark Lord.

His oft-stated sense of hopelessness, "we'll never make it, Sam, so there's no use worrying about.. (water, food, shelter, a return trip)" plus..

Frodo's fears, in the Tower of Cirith Ungol, his losing touch with reality for a moment and imagining Sam was an orc, trying to take the ring... He started seeing everything as doomed, and could not even remember images of the Shire. His vision was becoming more and more dark and distorted.

His independent personality, from the very beginning he tells Gandalf when he would like to leave the Shire (think, a more submissive person would say "gee, Gandalf, when should I leave?"). He vies with Galadriel (no one else challenges her). He’s of a mind with the irrepressibly independent Bilbo, hides knowledge of the mithril coat from the rest of the group (albeit at Bilbo’s suggestion, but they are similar in that way aren’t they?). Tries to hide the fact he’s leaving the Shire from his friends. Rarely reveals his intentions, (he doesn’t confide exactly what’s going on in his mind even to Sam in Mordor). Then caps it off by abandoning the Fellowship and attempting to head into Mordor alone. Yes, his intention was to take the risk alone, but that in itself reveals a great deal.

His fundamental complaint: never having a choice, he just wished it had never been found. From the very beginning the thing is thrust on him, and in Rivendell, while he would rather stay with Bilbo, he forces himself to do what he must.

What he actually says when he claims it. Does he say “I will save the world”?Boromir on Amon Hen “I am THE Frodo”? Gollum in Ithillien “I will make a garden of Mordor”? Sam in Cirith Ungol No. Simply, “I do not chose to do this. The ring is Mine.”

Finally, what wins is his underlying desire to make his own choices. The chink in his drive to save the Shire is that he doesn’t think it’s possible, and he steadily gives up the ghost on that idea. At the end he’s deceived into thinking that by claiming the ring, he is finally exercising his own free will. You can almost hear the weight taken off his shoulders, of saving the Shire, of finally not having to do what he must - as he makes this ringing declaration.

What kind of dark lord would Frodo have made? (not possible, but just for the sake of character analysis...) A reclusive one, probably more interested in knowledge and dragons (increasingly forbidden knowledge?) than orcs, armies and conquest.

If people aren't too tired from the holidays, I'm sure this is going to be torn to shreds. Okay. Have at it.

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]