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Old 12-05-2011, 11:26 AM   #38
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,694
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
First the easier issues:
BL-RG-40: I agree that 'Saurons' heralds' is also not very good. What about:
Quote:
{Thu's messengers}[Gorthaur's bats]. What hast thou brought,
But reading this again I see that I my have a wrong pronauciation of 'Gor-THAU-r's BATS.' Which most likley is realy 'GOR-thaur's BATS.' But then it is not better than your suggestion.

BL-EX-11.5: Reading more in the Lay I found the word 'magic' so often that it is impossible to remove it everywere. That means it can stand here as well.

BL-SL_05:
Quote:
I have to admit, I've even been wondering now and then whether it's possible that Boldog's objective of capturing Luthien was merely omitted from later sources rather than rejected. But in the end it's best to err on the side of caution.
It might be that Tolkien created a time line problem here. The story in the Lay based on Synopsis V is:

- Beren and Felagund leave Nargothrond
- At the 'turn of summer' Melain tells Lúthien of Berens imprisonment by Sauron (this must be a forsight in any case)
- At 'autumn's wild beginning' Felagund and Beren disguise as Orcs
- Luthien's flight from Doriath
- Morogth hears of here wandering and sents Boldog
- Luthien is captured in Nargothrond
- Thingol prepares an attack on Nargothrond
- Thingol meets Boldogs war-band and crashes it
- Beren and Felagund before Sauron

It did not came to my mind reading the Lay that it had taken Beren and Felagund so long to wander from the source of Narog to the Pass of Sirion. Anyhow it is safest to remove the special mission of Boldog, as we already agreed and it could be that we have found one good reason why Tolkien did remove it.
Quote:
But I still have reservations about BL-SL-05. With the removal of Morgoth's desire for Luthien, it seems very strange for Sauron to mention her at all here. In the original, when he imagines Morgoth 'crushing a maiden in his hoard', he is clearly envisioning the intended outcome of Boldog's attack. But if Boldog's attack was just an ordinary border-skirmish, why does Sauron suddenly start talking about Luthien?
We know that Morgoth heard of Luthiens wandering, so why shouldn't Sauron have heard? And since he is talking about a border skirmish at Doriath why not mention her? We also hear in Sil77 that Sauron and Morgoth have some interest in her:
Quote:
But Lúthien heard his answering voice, and she sang then a song of greater power. The wolves howled, and the isle trembled. Sauron stood in the high tower, wrapped in his black thought ;but he smiled hearing her voice, for he knew that it was the daughter of Melian. The fame of the beauty of Lúthien and the wonder of her song had long gone forth from Doriath; and he thought to make her captive and hand her over to the power of Morgoth, for his reward would be great.
Beside that Sauron is suspicious about them and he tries to teas them to some worng move. Which is exactly what the mention of Luthien did provoke.

Respectfuly
Findegil
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