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Old 06-14-2001, 03:55 PM   #26
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dm
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 283
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 112
Re: A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin

where is the source for the comepeting Noldor only/Noldor - Sindar houses. Quendi and Eldar? - Shibboleth? I think it is briefly mentioned in the UT tuor notes.

If I am recalling correctly in the original version of FoG (Lost Tales), there were only Noldoli/Gnomes present in Gondolin, there were no Sindar (or rather Ilkorin Elves who later became the Sindar). In the Grey Annals in HoME 5 it only mentions Turgon taking the Noldor to Gondolin (a third of Fingolfin's people). In the GA in HoME 11 (excursus on Languages, And Annal for year 67) the initial writings have Gondolin peopled by the Noldor only. This concept was discarded in rewrites of the passages. Annal 116 says the Sindar out numbered the Noldor in Gondolin. However in the Glorfindel essay in Last Writings (HoME 12) JRRT mentions that Gondolin was peopled almost entirely by the Noldor. I have had debates with some who say that this was JRRT's final conception he was changing this back to the long held original version and is thus 'canon'. I however think it may have just been some fogetfulness on his part (these late writings show a variety of 'errors' attributable to the Professors age and 'memory being no longer retentive'). There is a few lines later the consideration that Glorfindel could have been a Sinda.
In any event Gondolin having a Sinda population is much more consistant overall, though it may necesitate some change to the Lost Tales version.

cian is one of the more knowledgeable 'linguistic' types (at least of those that commonly post on boards on other than the linguistic boards).

Tar-Elenion--------------------- I will come with Fire and Sword, and put your cities to the Torch, your men to the Blade, your women and children in Chains</p>
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