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Old 02-15-2004, 08:33 AM   #17
Findegil
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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I think we take the mouth of Sirion to literarily here. From the Grey Annals we learn that Círdan already established a foothold at Lisgardh when he established the refuge on the isle of Balar.

So it is quiet natural than any fugitives that joined Círdan would first come to that haven at the mouth of Sirion.

I think that Círdan was a lord of the Sindar and did not claim the lord-ship over the Noldor joining his people. When Gil-Galad came to Círdan after the fall of Nargothrond he was recognised by the Noldor of Círdans people as the noblest of blood among them and so taken as King of the Noldor in the company of Círdan. Since Círdan had ever been in friendship with the Noldor of Nargothrond, we can assume that he and Gil-Galad ruled the people in a friendly cooperation.

It is further said, that Tour and Earendil when they moved to Sirions mouth "joined their folk to the slender company of Elwing daughter of Dior, that had fled thither little while before."

That there is no mention of Círdans people already dwelling at the moth for a long time has the simple reason that we are dealing with old text were Círdan and his Falathrim had not been introduced.
Also we learn later that Earendil was Lord of the People of the havens at Sirons mouth. We cannot reconcile that if at the same time Gil-Galad is the King of Noldor at Sirions mouth. After the attack of the Feanorians the havens were destroyed, so Gil-Galad could not be the King of the Noldor at Sirions moth later.

So how can we deal with that now? We can take the Grey Annals and make Círdans Haven at Lisgardh only a small "foothold" to enable the passage of fugitives only not much populated.
That allows us to take the first real settlement at the heavens to be done by Elwings people joined soon after by the fugitives of Gondolin.

Than we must take the note about Gil-Galad in The Shiboleth less literarily to mean the area of Sirions mouth since the most of the People (Sindar under Círdan and Noldor under Gil-Galad after he came there) dwelt upon the isle of Balar, with Gil-Galad joining Círdan upon the isle.
It is to be mentioned that at the time of the Fall of Gondolin most Noldor that had fled to the south were probably people of the house of Finarfin (e.g. Arminas and Gelmir that brought the message of Ulmo to Nargothrond). The people of Fingon would have been in a big part rescued by Turgon when he withdraw from the Nirneath, or could we imagine the rest of host of Fingon taken refuge in Gondolin when the women and children were left behind in Hithlum? (The people of Annael lived fare to the west and so were not "rescued".) And the Feanorians were gathered in Eastbeleriand even after Himring had fallen. So only the Elves of Dorthonion and Nargothrond would have taken refuge with Círdan whom they knew as a friend of their former Lords (Finrod and Orordreth).

This situation changed when Tuor and his people came to the moth of Sirion. They were a big folk not only small group. The Noldor among them were mostly of the house of Fingolfin, and they brought a family of their own leaders with them: Idirl and Tour with their son Earendil. But they did establish themselves at the heavens and did not sail to the isle of Balar. They were clearly in very friendly terms with Círdan, since it is told in the late writing Círdan that "Earendil was 'apprenticed' to Círdan, who aided him in the building of Vingilot." But I do not think that they accepted Gil-Galad as their king (not jet, when Earendil was lost at the sea and the folk was diminished by the attack of the Feanorinas, this would be other wise).

I would say it is best to stick to Christopher Tolkiens Idea in so fare as to place Gil-Galad with Círdan on the Isle of Balar and coming to late to the battle of the heavens.

Respectfully
Findegil
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