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Old 05-31-2015, 07:17 PM   #153
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,081
Aiwendil has been trapped in the Barrow!
I've reviewed the discussion to remind myself of where things stand.

Concerning Findegil's most recent proposed text, I have a few qualms; but perhaps it's not worth going into the gritty details if, as Findegil subsequently suggested, we are going to first try to agree on an outline.

Findegil, in your proposed outline, as in your text, you have Turgon refuse the counsel of war twice. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any precedent for this in any of the texts. The outline that I would be inclined to follow would be:

- Tuor bids Turgon prepare for a war against Morgoth, describes the means of preparing (alliances with the Feanorians and with men of the east, probable succour from the Valar), and describes the consequences of such a war (a terrible battle but a chance for real victory).
- Turgon refuses this first counsel.
- Tuor bids him abandon Gondolin and seek refuge at the mouths of Sirion.
- Idril and Turgon's wise councillors speak in favour of this advice.
- Turgon refuses this second counsel.

(I also have quibbles with the placement of certain text, which I think creates redundancies in your latest proposal, but perhaps we should agree on an outline first).

I think this also more closely matches Gondowe's desired outline, with the exception of the first refusal of Turgon coming in between the counsel of war and the counsel of abandonment.
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