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Old 05-29-2017, 05:53 AM   #2
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
I think there's too much memory for Men/other races to accept orcs into their society, and orcs didn't particularly want to mix in with Men either (particularly on the terms of being worst enemies who now live as... equals? That would never happen). Neither side would be happy with the arrangement.

I'm fuzzy about the Shagrat-Gorbag dialogue, which is the root of these speculations, so if my memory is playing tricks I would stand corrected. But I imagine that they were unhappy with their situations more because they were in a "fetch this, fetch that" sort of relationship with the higher-ups. All creatures are prone to laziness, and even orcs don't particularly like to be bossed around. Much better to be your own boss, and only do those things of which you see the benefit for yourselves. I wonder how they would compare to the "free" orcs of the Misty Mountains.

It is curious, though, if orcs that were far enough to the East not to be cleared and slaughtered immediately formed their own communities that did not live off looting/killing/other orcish occupations. Would they even like the idea of something like that. I always imagined surviving orcs to be more individual hideouts, or small bands at most, hiding in the farthest corners of the Mountains of Mordor and living on small skirmishes and whatever mean food could be found in Mordor. Eventually they'd be cleared out, but I allowed in my imagination for one or two hermit orcs to remain alive and successfully hidden, to be discovered only many years later (or not at all). The idea on entire communities that would be 1. alive and 2. peaceful is a curious investigation.

The reason I don't see such larger groups of orcs forming up where Gondorians would be in control is that there seems to be something fundamental about orcs that makes them unforgivable. Enemy Men can be pardoned - perhaps still hated, but pardoned. Are orcs ever pardoned in the history of the legendarium? For that matter, have orcs ever surrendered, to be held captive? It may simply be a vicious cycle, where Men wouldn't offer, and orcs wouldn't ask, so no one even considered it. Or it may have something to do with their nature being so fundamentally different. Men of different races are still Men, but orcs are orcs. Perhaps the implication of "good" orcs is more that Morgoth could not even corrupt absolutely - some human desire and thought still remained.

So to conclude - the simple answer is most likely no, orcs wouldn't integrate into Mannsih communities, but this still leaves the question for speculation whether orcs could form peaceful communities of their own. And perhaps they would be more successful in the East, which we know less of (so can imagine more) and which was friendlier with Sauron and probably had more allied contact with orcs.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
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