The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR1-FotR-Seq09

alatar · 12-14-2005, 02:35 PM

If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up! – Ecclesiastes 4:10

Note that the Council of Elrond was one of my favorite chapters in FotR. You get more back-story, like when in the Shire with the Shadow of the Past, about what's really going on. But here we are in PJ's version.

Elrond starts the Council out, and he looks as happy as ever. You get the feeling that he's still thinking about that day, 3000 years ago. And what's with the stature with the cymbals? As Elrond continues depressing everyone we get shots of some of the main players: Legolas, Aragorn, Boromir, Frodo.

Is it me or does Lord Elrond skip about the area a bit, once near his throne, suddenly elsewhere, then back again by the wooden throne?

Frodo brings forth the One Ring. He sets it down without hesitation in the middle of this group. And I have no idea who the other people in the room are with the exception of Elrond and the members of the soon-to-be-Fellowship.

We cut immediately to Boromir, and some…Ring, I mean some thing has caught his attention, and he begins muttering while Aragorn looks on. Frodo returns to his seat, and Gandalf nods as in 'well done, Frodo lad.' But to me it looked like Ian nodded to someone about a foot or so higher than Frodo, but you can’t have all of the scenes perfect.

We get more shots, and now we've included Gimli. No one knows where to start or what to say. Thankfully Boromir is there to break the ice, but then he starts talking about some dream that he had and seems to be already going over the Rauros without an oar or two. He reaches for the Ring. Elrond yells at him, and I'm sure that he was going to go into the Isildur story.

Luckily Gandalf shouts him down with some Black Speech.

The effect of Lord Sauron's words rendered in the native tongue causes havoc. The sky darkens. Gimli feels threatened and goes for his axe. The ground shakes. Elrond has a migraine, but this may have also been due to not being able to tell Boromir 'the story.' Is that why Elrond welcomed travelers, so that he would have fresh ears to beat? Is it clear to non-reader’s what Gandalf just said? And why did he raise his hand?

Gandalf stops, and sunlight returns to the council, and Boromir to his seat.

Elrond has something new to complain about.

Gandalf does not apologize, but his next words do not make sense. I would have thought that he would have said, "if you don't want to hear that 24/7, then we better do something about this Ring and its owner," not, "I’m not apologizing, and that Ring is altogether evil." Did you forget a line in between, O Grey Wanderer? I love that inscription upon the One Ring causes such an effect. Too bad I can’t get the same case of willies from (1) the Eye, (2) the Nazgul and (3) the One Ring. Oh, that’s right, it’s E-V-I-L. Ooo! Scary!

Boromir (by the by, I like Sean Bean's portrayal of the Steward’s heir) asks the sensible question that many in the audience might likewise be asking. He starts in to his 'you owe me and Gondor this boon' speech, and Aragorn is put out a bit. But why, as Strider is in self-imposed exile, there are no other Rangers as far as we know, and no one protects the Shire. The elves are leaving, and seemingly the Dwarves are miners with poor social skills. Aragorn asserts himself with more of the wizard's words - no one except for Frodo knows what the Ring does, and who knows to what it could be put? We simply know that it is EVIL.

Yep. Evil. Lars yes.

And what's that elf princeling saying? Clue to Legolas: Aragorn is in exile, is not a king or The King, and as I understand it not only has no title but also pays full rate at Barliman's. Leave Boromir alone! Or do all elves misunderstand humans so well?

Boromir is surprised that Aragorn is Isildur's heir? Like the name Aragorn means anything. It’s a little nonsensical for an elf to be telling a man that he owes his allegiance to some travel-stained stick-at-naught wanderer. And what was Boromir's problem when last he and Aragorn met in the shadow of Narsil? Here I too side with Boromir, as what does Aragorn have going for him except an elvish girlfriend and a good torch-throwing arm?

Gandalf echoes the words that he’d put in Aragorn’s mouth. We cannot use it because, um, it’s EVIL. You’ll lose all of your hair like that Gollum guy…but wasn’t there another Hobbit who used it time and again with seemingly little affect?

Elrond jumps in. We know what his suggestion would be, as he’s been singing the same song for nigh 3000 years now. Is there a reason that the elves cannot take the Ring and destroy it? Those of us reader know why, but did PJ make it clear why Elrond couldn’t do something besides point the way?

Gimli decides to act and pays for his haste. Nice way to visually and quickly show the Ring’s invincibility to the usual ways of unmaking such a thing.

Frodo is hurt somehow by Gimli’s attack, and so are we to believe that he is already linked to the Ring somehow?

Elrond explains the task at hand, and Boromir adds to our knowledge of Mordor. I love Sean Bean’s delivery of this information. He tells of the Black Gate, and you can see on his face that he has seen it and walked in its shadow. Legolas interjects, and I assume that he’s delusional, attacking Boromir for being a realist. Gimli in turn goes for the pointy-eared one. Hello! Boromir splashes yet more cold water on the Council, and suddenly it’s a free-for-all.

PJ uses well the reflections in the Ring to show that it is sowing the seeds of discord, that evil has enter Imladris, and what the fate of all will be if the Ring is recaptured. How much better this than the words of Saruman. Even Gandalf enters the fray, and has words with Boromir.

All will burn.

Frodo steps up and takes responsibility for the Ring’s demise. Gandalf’s heart breaks at Frodo’s words, hearing what he knew must be. The sight of this smallest person, taking on such a large burden and impossible task, ends the debate. Frodo accepts the quest, but in a way also asks for help. Gandalf joins him, and I’m glad of that. Aragorn utters the words that we could have heard in Bree, yet they are welcome here too. He pledges his sword to the task. The wink/nod between Elrond and Gandalf to me was unnecessary and lightens the scene. Let there be something solemn, PJ!

Legolas pledges his bow, and naturally we also get Gimli’s axe (assumedly not the one that he used on the Ring). Boromir’s pledge to me was the best, as he was against the destruction of the Ring, yet bows to the will of the Council and decides to help. Anyway. I see no duplicity, no “I’ll hang around for my chance to grab the Ring.” This honorable man accepts his duty, live or die. To me Boromir is much more heroic than Aragorn here.

Sam jumps in, just like in the book, and this actually makes Elrond happy. But that’s not enough mirth from moreMoreMORE Jackson. Next we have Merry and Pippin join in to add some slapstick. From Boromir to Pippin, the scene just slides down into Sillyland. We just couldn’t have that ‘hero’ moment last for more than a few seconds without spending a minute with Pip. Ugh.

As Elrond looks over these nine (why Nine, by the by?), Howard Shore’s score pumps up the blood with the hero theme.

The picture with the Nine Walkers (Standers here) creeps me out. Legolas especially. Though PJ got much of the size-scenes right, he lost me with this one. It almost looks photoshopped. And again, Legolas’s head seems to be on a fake body. And just why does everyone line up like a school class picture? Couldn’t they have surrounded Frodo, laying hand on him or something?

Cheese not just for the photographers.

Elrond is almost gushing as the scene wanes. Why so happy? Sending the Ring out into the Wild, and you’re not concerned when moments before you acted like the entire world was against Rivendell? Is it that you got your way and got Frodo to continue on with the Ring? Getting rid of Pip and the other ravenous hobbits might be the explanation for your smile, or is it that as soon as the Fellowship leaves your door you and the other elves plan to cut and run west? What a diversion, and the roads westward will be free of Sauron’s minions.

“Goodbye, Middle Earth, and thanks for all the fish.”

Pip closes out the first DVD. Naturally.

Note that I did not find the MTV Council of Elrond Easter Egg to be funny. This could be due to (1) I’m old and crabby or (2) it’s just not funny. I concede point #1.

The start of DVD EE #2 shows that at least some time has past. It’s darker now, and it appears that our fellowship is preparing for their perilous journey. We get to see Legolas traipse by, as who else would have a bow?

Next Aragorn cleans moss and leaves from his mother’s gravestone, she who gave Middle Earth hope. An oddly familiar stature, and I wonder what others see here.

We learn why Aragorn lives at Rivendell, as he is hunted by the Enemy. He denies yet again the Kingship (thrice perhaps?), and Elrond attempts to talk him into accepting his role in life. “I’m the happy Elrond now, and so why don’t you just forget all of that stuff that I said about Isildur and go off and be King already?” What a messed up guy Aragorn must be. Losing his parents, raised by pointy-eared foster father with a grudge, dating his foster parent’s daughter, one minute being told that Isildur is the lowest of the low, then suddenly asked why he does not follow the footsteps of his great ancestor?

I’m surprised that PJ didn’t make it more of a soap opera than it already is. Thankfully we move on.

PJ notes that Bilbo's Rivendell accommodations are actually a room built within a real world park. He stated that he wanted to capture a real indoor/outdoor feel for Rivendell. Bilbo's room, though elven, still has a warm earthy brown feel that surely appeals to the old hobbit. PJ also remarks on Bilbo's aged condition, and he states that without the Ring, Bilbo's aging process has "accelerated."

Gollum must live in Beverly 'botox' Hills. Still, he lost his hair...or not

.

Bilbo unwraps Sting and gives it to Frodo. Glad to see that at least one hobbit blade will be as in the books. Frodo examines the spider bane, as do we, and it truly is a work of art, both in the story and as a prop in the movie. Bilbo gives more than just gifts to his nephew when he when the blade glows blue (unlike Glamdring

), it's time to jam.

The mithril coat comes next. Who better than Bilbo to sell a mithril coat, as he can unhyperbolically compare it to dragon's scales. As Frodo makes to add the shirt to his person, that Ring appears and yet again effects the hearts of those present, as it did in the Council.

Ian Holm plays the addict viewing an out-of-reach fix very well. Before he even reaches for Frodo, Frodo senses that something's amiss and removes the Ring from plain sight. Odd that, that he would deny his beloved Uncle a peek, but as the Ring will briefly show Bilbo to be a monster, we now see the effect of the Ring already on Frodo. It's mine!

A puppet is used for the change from Bilbo to the bad hobbit, and I thought that the effect was well done. Not sure if the whole world jumped at the scene, as the Directors speculate, but maybe we can comment on that too. Frodo sees a monster for his Uncle, and though the words of Elrond may have fallen flat, I now am convinced that this Ring must be destroyed if it causes such behavior between these two characters.

Strife between Gandalf and Bilbo, and now even between Bilbo and Frodo. The Ring, like many addictions, destroys the bearer's relationships to all but itself. You're mine!

Bilbo immediately recovers his senses, begins to cry and apologizes to Frodo - like Boromir will in turn do sometime soon. The old tired hobbit turns his back, not on Frodo perhaps, but on his claim to the Ring.

Frodo, recovering his senses too, closes the gap between he and his Uncle. There's that hand on the shoulder that we continually see. Though one might expect these two to face and hug, PJ has them (rightly so) stay as they are, as the Ring has placed them. They can still touch, still hold hands, yet the Ring will permit nothing more, and so Bilbo must turn his face from dear Frodo. Sometimes there is no going back.

It's goodbye for now, dear Bilbo.

But where are the rest of the nine, these Nine Walkers perhaps? Are they ready to go? When will they leave the calm of Rivendell for the Misty Mountains, and that which lies beyond?

12-14-2005, 02:35 PM	#1
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	LotR1-FotR-Seq09 If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up! – Ecclesiastes 4:10 Note that the Council of Elrond was one of my favorite chapters in FotR. You get more back-story, like when in the Shire with the Shadow of the Past, about what's really going on. But here we are in PJ's version. Elrond starts the Council out, and he looks as happy as ever. You get the feeling that he's still thinking about that day, 3000 years ago. And what's with the stature with the cymbals? As Elrond continues depressing everyone we get shots of some of the main players: Legolas, Aragorn, Boromir, Frodo. Is it me or does Lord Elrond skip about the area a bit, once near his throne, suddenly elsewhere, then back again by the wooden throne? Frodo brings forth the One Ring. He sets it down without hesitation in the middle of this group. And I have no idea who the other people in the room are with the exception of Elrond and the members of the soon-to-be-Fellowship. We cut immediately to Boromir, and some…Ring, I mean some thing has caught his attention, and he begins muttering while Aragorn looks on. Frodo returns to his seat, and Gandalf nods as in 'well done, Frodo lad.' But to me it looked like Ian nodded to someone about a foot or so higher than Frodo, but you can’t have all of the scenes perfect. We get more shots, and now we've included Gimli. No one knows where to start or what to say. Thankfully Boromir is there to break the ice, but then he starts talking about some dream that he had and seems to be already going over the Rauros without an oar or two. He reaches for the Ring. Elrond yells at him, and I'm sure that he was going to go into the Isildur story. Luckily Gandalf shouts him down with some Black Speech. The effect of Lord Sauron's words rendered in the native tongue causes havoc. The sky darkens. Gimli feels threatened and goes for his axe. The ground shakes. Elrond has a migraine, but this may have also been due to not being able to tell Boromir 'the story.' Is that why Elrond welcomed travelers, so that he would have fresh ears to beat? Is it clear to non-reader’s what Gandalf just said? And why did he raise his hand? Gandalf stops, and sunlight returns to the council, and Boromir to his seat. Elrond has something new to complain about. Gandalf does not apologize, but his next words do not make sense. I would have thought that he would have said, "if you don't want to hear that 24/7, then we better do something about this Ring and its owner," not, "I’m not apologizing, and that Ring is altogether evil." Did you forget a line in between, O Grey Wanderer? I love that inscription upon the One Ring causes such an effect. Too bad I can’t get the same case of willies from (1) the Eye, (2) the Nazgul and (3) the One Ring. Oh, that’s right, it’s E-V-I-L. Ooo! Scary! Boromir (by the by, I like Sean Bean's portrayal of the Steward’s heir) asks the sensible question that many in the audience might likewise be asking. He starts in to his 'you owe me and Gondor this boon' speech, and Aragorn is put out a bit. But why, as Strider is in self-imposed exile, there are no other Rangers as far as we know, and no one protects the Shire. The elves are leaving, and seemingly the Dwarves are miners with poor social skills. Aragorn asserts himself with more of the wizard's words - no one except for Frodo knows what the Ring does, and who knows to what it could be put? We simply know that it is EVIL. Yep. Evil. Lars yes. And what's that elf princeling saying? Clue to Legolas: Aragorn is in exile, is not a king or The King, and as I understand it not only has no title but also pays full rate at Barliman's. Leave Boromir alone! Or do all elves misunderstand humans so well? Boromir is surprised that Aragorn is Isildur's heir? Like the name Aragorn means anything. It’s a little nonsensical for an elf to be telling a man that he owes his allegiance to some travel-stained stick-at-naught wanderer. And what was Boromir's problem when last he and Aragorn met in the shadow of Narsil? Here I too side with Boromir, as what does Aragorn have going for him except an elvish girlfriend and a good torch-throwing arm? Gandalf echoes the words that he’d put in Aragorn’s mouth. We cannot use it because, um, it’s EVIL. You’ll lose all of your hair like that Gollum guy…but wasn’t there another Hobbit who used it time and again with seemingly little affect? Elrond jumps in. We know what his suggestion would be, as he’s been singing the same song for nigh 3000 years now. Is there a reason that the elves cannot take the Ring and destroy it? Those of us reader know why, but did PJ make it clear why Elrond couldn’t do something besides point the way? Gimli decides to act and pays for his haste. Nice way to visually and quickly show the Ring’s invincibility to the usual ways of unmaking such a thing. Frodo is hurt somehow by Gimli’s attack, and so are we to believe that he is already linked to the Ring somehow? Elrond explains the task at hand, and Boromir adds to our knowledge of Mordor. I love Sean Bean’s delivery of this information. He tells of the Black Gate, and you can see on his face that he has seen it and walked in its shadow. Legolas interjects, and I assume that he’s delusional, attacking Boromir for being a realist. Gimli in turn goes for the pointy-eared one. Hello! Boromir splashes yet more cold water on the Council, and suddenly it’s a free-for-all. PJ uses well the reflections in the Ring to show that it is sowing the seeds of discord, that evil has enter Imladris, and what the fate of all will be if the Ring is recaptured. How much better this than the words of Saruman. Even Gandalf enters the fray, and has words with Boromir. All will burn. Frodo steps up and takes responsibility for the Ring’s demise. Gandalf’s heart breaks at Frodo’s words, hearing what he knew must be. The sight of this smallest person, taking on such a large burden and impossible task, ends the debate. Frodo accepts the quest, but in a way also asks for help. Gandalf joins him, and I’m glad of that. Aragorn utters the words that we could have heard in Bree, yet they are welcome here too. He pledges his sword to the task. The wink/nod between Elrond and Gandalf to me was unnecessary and lightens the scene. Let there be something solemn, PJ! Legolas pledges his bow, and naturally we also get Gimli’s axe (assumedly not the one that he used on the Ring). Boromir’s pledge to me was the best, as he was against the destruction of the Ring, yet bows to the will of the Council and decides to help. Anyway. I see no duplicity, no “I’ll hang around for my chance to grab the Ring.” This honorable man accepts his duty, live or die. To me Boromir is much more heroic than Aragorn here. Sam jumps in, just like in the book, and this actually makes Elrond happy. But that’s not enough mirth from moreMoreMORE Jackson. Next we have Merry and Pippin join in to add some slapstick. From Boromir to Pippin, the scene just slides down into Sillyland. We just couldn’t have that ‘hero’ moment last for more than a few seconds without spending a minute with Pip. Ugh. As Elrond looks over these nine (why Nine, by the by?), Howard Shore’s score pumps up the blood with the hero theme. The picture with the Nine Walkers (Standers here) creeps me out. Legolas especially. Though PJ got much of the size-scenes right, he lost me with this one. It almost looks photoshopped. And again, Legolas’s head seems to be on a fake body. And just why does everyone line up like a school class picture? Couldn’t they have surrounded Frodo, laying hand on him or something? Cheese not just for the photographers. Elrond is almost gushing as the scene wanes. Why so happy? Sending the Ring out into the Wild, and you’re not concerned when moments before you acted like the entire world was against Rivendell? Is it that you got your way and got Frodo to continue on with the Ring? Getting rid of Pip and the other ravenous hobbits might be the explanation for your smile, or is it that as soon as the Fellowship leaves your door you and the other elves plan to cut and run west? What a diversion, and the roads westward will be free of Sauron’s minions. “Goodbye, Middle Earth, and thanks for all the fish.” Pip closes out the first DVD. Naturally. Note that I did not find the MTV Council of Elrond Easter Egg to be funny. This could be due to (1) I’m old and crabby or (2) it’s just not funny. I concede point #1. The start of DVD EE #2 shows that at least some time has past. It’s darker now, and it appears that our fellowship is preparing for their perilous journey. We get to see Legolas traipse by, as who else would have a bow? Next Aragorn cleans moss and leaves from his mother’s gravestone, she who gave Middle Earth hope. An oddly familiar stature, and I wonder what others see here. We learn why Aragorn lives at Rivendell, as he is hunted by the Enemy. He denies yet again the Kingship (thrice perhaps?), and Elrond attempts to talk him into accepting his role in life. “I’m the happy Elrond now, and so why don’t you just forget all of that stuff that I said about Isildur and go off and be King already?” What a messed up guy Aragorn must be. Losing his parents, raised by pointy-eared foster father with a grudge, dating his foster parent’s daughter, one minute being told that Isildur is the lowest of the low, then suddenly asked why he does not follow the footsteps of his great ancestor? I’m surprised that PJ didn’t make it more of a soap opera than it already is. Thankfully we move on. PJ notes that Bilbo's Rivendell accommodations are actually a room built within a real world park. He stated that he wanted to capture a real indoor/outdoor feel for Rivendell. Bilbo's room, though elven, still has a warm earthy brown feel that surely appeals to the old hobbit. PJ also remarks on Bilbo's aged condition, and he states that without the Ring, Bilbo's aging process has "accelerated." Gollum must live in Beverly 'botox' Hills. Still, he lost his hair...or not . Bilbo unwraps Sting and gives it to Frodo. Glad to see that at least one hobbit blade will be as in the books. Frodo examines the spider bane, as do we, and it truly is a work of art, both in the story and as a prop in the movie. Bilbo gives more than just gifts to his nephew when he when the blade glows blue (unlike Glamdring ), it's time to jam. The mithril coat comes next. Who better than Bilbo to sell a mithril coat, as he can unhyperbolically compare it to dragon's scales. As Frodo makes to add the shirt to his person, that Ring appears and yet again effects the hearts of those present, as it did in the Council. Ian Holm plays the addict viewing an out-of-reach fix very well. Before he even reaches for Frodo, Frodo senses that something's amiss and removes the Ring from plain sight. Odd that, that he would deny his beloved Uncle a peek, but as the Ring will briefly show Bilbo to be a monster, we now see the effect of the Ring already on Frodo. It's mine! A puppet is used for the change from Bilbo to the bad hobbit, and I thought that the effect was well done. Not sure if the whole world jumped at the scene, as the Directors speculate, but maybe we can comment on that too. Frodo sees a monster for his Uncle, and though the words of Elrond may have fallen flat, I now am convinced that this Ring must be destroyed if it causes such behavior between these two characters. Strife between Gandalf and Bilbo, and now even between Bilbo and Frodo. The Ring, like many addictions, destroys the bearer's relationships to all but itself. You're mine! Bilbo immediately recovers his senses, begins to cry and apologizes to Frodo - like Boromir will in turn do sometime soon. The old tired hobbit turns his back, not on Frodo perhaps, but on his claim to the Ring. Frodo, recovering his senses too, closes the gap between he and his Uncle. There's that hand on the shoulder that we continually see. Though one might expect these two to face and hug, PJ has them (rightly so) stay as they are, as the Ring has placed them. They can still touch, still hold hands, yet the Ring will permit nothing more, and so Bilbo must turn his face from dear Frodo. Sometimes there is no going back. It's goodbye for now, dear Bilbo. But where are the rest of the nine, these Nine Walkers perhaps? Are they ready to go? When will they leave the calm of Rivendell for the Misty Mountains, and that which lies beyond? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it. Last edited by alatar; 12-15-2005 at 09:52 PM.