Thread: Name Changes?
View Single Post
Old 10-31-2003, 07:42 AM   #5
Inderjit Sanghera
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 716
Inderjit Sanghera has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
“But "Maedhros" was not intended to have a Beorian etymology (obviously). The change to "Maedron" appears to be in light of the change (which failed) of "ros-" to a Beorian stem.
In other words, the original situation, the one that was preserved by the failure of the "Ros" idea, is that there are two distinct stems, one meaning "red-brown" and the other meaning "foam". Tolkien wanted to alter this so that the single meaning was "foam", and this was Beorian. But "Cair Andros" is a Sindarin name, so the solution change was no good.”
The change from ‘ros’ to ‘ron’ was not in light of the change of ‘ros’ from Sindarin to Bëorian (Well, not fully so) but the Sindarin meaning of ‘Ros’ as “spray; spindrift” which had been fixed by Tolkien to mean in Sindarin ‘spray/spindrift’ and hence it would have nothing to do with Maedros’s name and the element of “ros” which is meant to be a reference to his reddish-brown hair.

Of course there are several conclusions that we can reach from this. We can comment on the often ‘incorrect’ Sindarinization (If there is such a word) of the names of the Etyañgoldi (Such as say Aegnor) and so when translating his name and trying to find a Sindarin alternative, or the nearest Sindarin alternative to Ñoldorin and Telerin Quenya urus=RUSSandol, he stumbled upon or made up ‘Ros’ But this is unsatisfactory. The Sindarin form of “ros”=spray has nothing to do with the colour red and thus the two cannot be linked. Surely a Ñoldo would not make such a calamitous phonetic error especially in regards to his name? We do hear that with the exception of Maglor and Curufin the sons of Fëanor weren’t very semantically inclined but such a blunder is perplexing in my mind.

Another theory that we can come up with is the form of ’ros’ in Cair AndROS can be seen as ‘incorrect’ since in ‘Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor’ we hear;
his
Quote:
“He points out that Sindarin was not well-known to many of the settlers who gave the names, mariners, soldiers, and emigrants, though all aspired to have some knowledge of it. Gondor was certainly occupied from its beginning by the Faithful, men of the Elf-friend party and their followers; and these in revolt against the ‘Adunaic' Kings who forbade the use of the Elvish tongues gave all new names in the new realm in Sindarin, or adapted older names to the manner of Sindarin. They also renewed and encouraged the study of Quenya, in which important documents, titles, and formulas were composed. But mistakes were likely to be made”
If we say that the settlers named ‘Cair Andros’ we can of course say that the ‘Ros’ stem was a mistake, perhaps stemming from the meaning of ‘Ros’ in Adûnaic (Though they had ‘revolted’ against it they may have been confused over some words or used some) or that it was a simple mis-interpretation of Sindarin Ros. Of course such a blunder is unlikely but it is more likely to come from Men of the Second/Third Age then a Ñoldorin prince. So we can keep the idea that the ’ros’ in Elros etc was a Bëorian word, and that Sindarin form of ‘ros’ meant red, and we could now if you want keep Maedros and the name would make sense. Though of course whether such a catastrophic change is possible is questionable.

Quote:
Of course, this situation is different from most name decisions because in fact both names are certainly valid and the decision is not which to take as canonical but which to use when he must be referred to
Certainly, but aren’t you a firm advocate against personal opinions in regards to a Re-published Silmarillion. (I.E it shouldn’t be what you “like” better”). But ‘Amarthan’ would to me be the more ‘famous’ of the two names in consideration of his fate plus in general the sons of Fëanor tended to Sindarinize their mother names.

Of course any change of the ‘ros’ form would effect the name ‘Amros’ derived from his mother-name Ambarussa.
But I think the easiest solution could be to simply record ‘ros’ as a addition by the Ñoldor for the colour red, derived from russa.
his
__________________
“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube.

"Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone
Inderjit Sanghera is offline   Reply With Quote