The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - *A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin*

jallanite · 06-10-2001, 08:24 PM

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Re: A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin

The spelling Orc or Ork is of course something to be decided for the entire project, not just for one section of it.

The spelling change, if made, would be far less troublesome to readers than is Tolkien's change from goblin in The Hobbit to orc in LR.

In Morgoth's Ring (HoME 10), Myths Transformed, IX, Tolkien first indicates the change of spelling:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Its application (in all Elvish tongues) specifically to the creatures called Orks*** so I shall spell it in The Silmarillion*** was later.<hr></blockquote>And again, at the end of section X:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> The word seemed in itself, very suitable to the creatures that I had in mind. But Old English orc in meaning*** so far as that is known*** is not suitable. Also the spelling of what, in the later more organized linguistic situation, must have been a Common Speech form of a word or group of similar words should be ork. If only because of spelling difficulties in modern English: an adjective orc + ish becomes necessary, and orcish will not do. In any further publication I shall use ork.<hr></blockquote>This was not a one-time impulse as essays in the following two HoME volumes show.

That this was a desired change by Tolkien, and that he would have made it had he published anything more during his lifetime, might be enough to convince.

The logic behind the change also should convince. But Tolkien covers it very hastily above.

Ork is should be an English word, as it stands for a word from Weston, the Common Speech, not from the Elvish tongues. But English words that end with a k sound are always spelled so as to end with the letter k (or ke), not c, unless they are loan words from Latin or another language. No native English word descended from pure Old English ends with c. If Old English orc had descended to us unbroken, then it would today be spelled ork, just as French porc became English pork. Ork feels right as an English word in a way that orc does not.

Ork is superior to Orc in much the same ways as Elven is superior to Elfin, or Dwarves to Dwarfs, or Elvenhome to Faërie, less artificial, stronger and more real. The taste of words does matter. There is magick in words.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000212>jallanit e</A> at: 6/10/01 10:53:15 pm

06-10-2001, 08:24 PM	#14
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 19</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin The spelling Orc or Ork is of course something to be decided for the entire project, not just for one section of it. The spelling change, if made, would be far less troublesome to readers than is Tolkien's change from goblin in The Hobbit to orc in LR. In Morgoth's Ring (HoME 10), Myths Transformed, IX, Tolkien first indicates the change of spelling:<blockquote>*Quote:<hr> Its application (in all Elvish tongues) specifically to the creatures called Orks**** so I shall spell it in The Silmarillion* was later.<hr></blockquote>And again, at the end of section X:<blockquote>Quote:*<hr> The word seemed in itself, very suitable to the creatures that I had in mind. But Old English orc* in meaning* so far as that is known* is not suitable. Also the spelling of what, in the later more organized linguistic situation, must have been a Common Speech form of a word or group of similar words should be ork. If only because of spelling difficulties in modern English: an adjective orc + ish becomes necessary, and orcish will not do. In any further publication I shall use ork.<hr></blockquote>This was not a one-time impulse as essays in the following two HoME volumes show. That this was a desired change by Tolkien, and that he would have made it had he published anything more during his lifetime, might be enough to convince. The logic behind the change also should convince. But Tolkien covers it very hastily above. Ork is should be an English word, as it stands for a word from Weston, the Common Speech, not from the Elvish tongues. But English words that end with a k sound are always spelled so as to end with the letter k (or ke), not c, unless they are loan words from Latin or another language. No native English word descended from pure Old English ends with c. If Old English orc had descended to us unbroken, then it would today be spelled ork, just as French porc became English pork. Ork feels right as an English word in a way that orc does not. Ork is superior to Orc in much the same ways as Elven is superior to Elfin, or Dwarves to Dwarfs, or Elvenhome to Faërie, less artificial, stronger and more real. The taste of words does matter. There is magick in words. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000212>jallanit e</A> at: 6/10/01 10:53:15 pm