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Old 08-03-2014, 11:05 AM   #23
Belegorn
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker View Post
So in this context, Gandalf would not have wished an encounter with a deadlier Maiar such as the Balrog of Morgoth than Saruman or the Witch King.
They did not know of a Balrog being in Moria. Both Aragorn and Gandalf had passed through Moria without encountering the Balrog before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FotR, Bk. 2, ch. 4
Yet it will not be the first time that I have been to Moria. I sought there long for Thráin son of Thrór after he was lost.

<...>

I too once passed the Dimrill Gate, but though I also came out again, the memory is very evil. I do not wish to enter Moria a second time.
I do not think in any case that Aragorn's beef is to not pass through Moria to avoid facing the Balrog. He did not know what was there, nor do I expect he thought such a being was living in the halls of Moria.

You say that, "the most important decision made as to how the Ring may be protected." Yet Aragorn seems to be placing his concern for Gandalf over the Ring in this instance when it concerned a possible route through Moria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FotR, Bk. 2, ch. 4
It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf.
Gandalf told the Company "I would not lead you into Moria if there were no hope of coming out again." [p. 354] This was in the context of Boromir having compared Moria to a stronghold of Sauron. Gandalf had no inkling so far as I know that it was a stronghold of the Balrog, nor did anyone else. Take note of his speculations:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FotR, Bk. 2, ch. 4
But most of the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were scattered or destroyed in the Battle of Five Armies. The Eagles report that Orcs are gathering again from afar; but there is a hope that Moria is still free.

There is even a chance that Dwarves are there, and that in some deep hall of his fathers, Balin son of Fundin may be found.
What he thought was possible was that Moria could be free from a plague of Orcs based on certain reports he was given and that Dwarves could be there. Gandalf wanted to go under the Mountains to cover their tracks and he thought it would be the least expected route the Enemy would consider them taking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
I doubt Gwaihir would have refused to help Gandalf, having saved him twice before
Help indeed, but recall the conversation between Gandalf and Gwaihir when the former had need of a ride after having been saved from Orthanc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FotR, Bk. 2, ch. 2
'How far can you bear me?"

"Many leagues," said he, "but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens."

"Then I must have a steed on land<...> for I have never had such a need of haste before."

"Then I will bear you to Edoras<...>for that is not very far off."
In the end, Frodo's journey would lead to Mordor anyway, the stronghold of Sauron, but you would have Gandalf arrested for deciding to lead them through Moria. "I would not lead you into Moria if there were no hope of coming out again." [p. 354] said Gandalf. There were concerns about Moria, but it would be a means to disappear from off the grid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
Aragorn had a duty to protect the Ring
The job was ultimately Frodo's. The others were in the Company until they came to their respective destinations, the two Dúnedain to Gondor for instance. Elrond said "I will choose you companions to go with you , as far as they will or fortune allows <...> They are willing to go at least to the passes of the Mountains, and maybe beyond." [FotR, ch. 3, p. 330] Aragorn was going to help aid in the wars of Gondor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
They may as well have been escorted by a large army to Lorien if there was no hope of secrecy.
Elrond claimed "your hope is in speed and secrecy." [p. 330] which may also account for Gandalf's choice to take the road of Moria, as it cut through the mountains and the Enemy would hardly be expecting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FotR, Bk. 2, ch. 4
I thought from the beginning, when I first considered this journey, that we should try it. ~ Gandalf
Speed and secrecy was the way to go. No protracted journey, loud and blustering, "The Company took little gear of war, for their hope was in secrecy not in battle." [Ch. 3, p. 334]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
Was Frodo really in charge of the fate of the Ring? He was only the Ring bearer, not the leader of the Company.
I think Elrond's final charge to Frodo may be of some help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ring Goes South; Elrond's charge to Frodo
The Ring-bearer is setting out on the Quest of Mount Doom. On him alone is any charge laid; neither to cast away the Ring, nor to deliver it to any servant of the Enemy nor indeed to let any handle it, save members of the Company and the Council, and only then in gravest need. The others go with him as free companions, to help him on his way. You may tarry, or come back, or turn aside into other paths, as chance allows. The further you go, the less easy will it be to withdraw; yet no oath or bond is laid on you to go further than you will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
Gandalf, being a powerful Maiar, may have had full confidence in confronting the horrors of Moria, but none of the others (save Gimli) did and would have not gone in but for the wolves.
Do you remember that chapter in The Hobbit titled, Out of the Frying-pan into the Fire? This seems like what you are suggesting they decided to do. Flee Wolves to face the Balrog and his horde of Orcs in Moria.

"Wolves or Balrog? I'd rather take my chances with that Balrog. To Moria!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
I seem to imagine him saying something like
He did say, "I can foresee very little of your road; and how your task is to be achieved I do not know." [Ch. 3, p. 330]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigûr
No one knew that there was a Balrog in Moria, however. They knew that there was something but not what it was.
Agreed. Gandalf did not even know it was a Balrog when they engaged each other on opposite sides of a door in Moria! [pp. 387-388]
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