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Old 08-18-2002, 06:21 PM   #24
Visionary Spirit
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 633
Gandalf_theGrey has just left Hobbiton.

Hullo, good Kuruharan!

I thank you for your worthy reply, for it forces me to think, and rethink, and refine my views. * bows *

Careful though, for such thought might prove dangerous. * good-natured grin while blowing a mischievous smoke ring or two * [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

At the risk of becoming yet more muddled, if you define the word "event" as "an occurrence, something which happens or happened" ... you could actually define both Frodo's prophetic dream and my dream of Mirkwood as being "events." My reasoning is that a dream must first occur or happen, (that is, be an event) in order for the dream to be remembered, discussed, have its existence recognized.

However, I would not identify Frodo's prophetic dream as being a eucatastrophic event, because Frodo was a passive observer rather than an interactive participant. Thus, I would differentiate between an event and an Event, if you take my meaning. I do recognize your hesitancy, Kuruharan, to assign the word "action" to a dream, because at best we would be dealing with the action of the mind, and that sort of action is hard to gauge or measure.

Perhaps as our debate goes on, you may find that I more overtly come to agree with you. * bows * Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the speculation. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

As for your assertion that a eucatastrophe ought to reach beyond the individual, I would counter that even the smallest actions ... even those actions which are not eucatastrophes, even those actions thought to be private ... can often affect far more people than the individual ever realized. Bilbo's staying his hand out of pity of Gollum, for instance. A eucatastrophe? I would say no. A small action? Again, I would say no.

As for your statement that "If something happens more than once you start to feel that it can happen the same way again." ... well, certainly there is the danger of taking the sublime for granted, as expressed in the adage, "Familiarity breeds contempt." Still, to my mind, the phrase "can never be counted on to be repeated" leaves the door open to the possibility of repetition.

Thank you for our continuing discussion, Kuruharan. I look forward to your further insight, as you wish.

At your Service,

Gandalf the Grey
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