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Old 10-12-2002, 06:35 AM   #71
Bęthberry
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Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
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Haunted by Clarissa indeed. We do need to find our way to chat, Nar. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

This can be a fruitful distinction between the earlier characters and moderns ones, yet, to me, the interesting thing is to watch the negotiations of those who do not have this control, because I think the issue of control is personal rather than political or social. But fascinating how you have introduced 'control'in discussion of Tom and Goldberry.

Your explication of "Tom as time and Goldberry place' is wonderful. *applause* It deserves to be quoted here again, even though Gandalf the Grey has already quoted it.

Quote:
My intuition is that Tom is the song sprung from the mind of Illuvatar, not the song as sung by the Valar -- the song as it was meant to be, so while all that happens is included, the ending theme of Arda remade and healed is also in him.
In agreement with your argument, let me offer these two bits from my character "Bethberry"'s past in a previous RPG. I conceived of her as the daughter of Tom and Goldberry, in search throughout Middle Earth for her mother's lost voice. (The "Beth" comes from Sindarin for 'word'.) I think this will definitely show how an RPG can provide commentary and interpretation of Tolkien as meaningful as that in any discussion. This first quotation here comes from a battle scene with the Black Riders:

Quote:
posted 02-05-2002 04:48 PM *Bethberry, seeing the difficulty all had in escaping, and worried particularly about the disappearance of Kailash, who was ill and would have a harder time fighting off the Riders, decided to take her own strategic offensive.*

*Riding hard off the path, she retraced the direction of several dwarves when they had first appeared, to be rewarded by finding a small cave, which could barely accomodate her small mare. Hurrying in, she dismounted, quieted Riverdance with a whisper, and explored the cave. She found what she was hoping for.*

*Kneeling close to a crevice, she began to sing a song of hope and encouragement, of succour and strength. By itself, the song could not repel the Riders, but it would give heart to those who fought with faith and valour ....*

*Echoing out of the mountain rocks as if it were a Great Music of the Flame Imperishable, the song went forth, bounding and rebounding and multiplying as each faithful heart heard it, until it created interchanging melodies, sometimes soft and sweet, sometimes terrible and awe-inspiring, blending out the clamorous brays of the attackers and revealing a sure theme to all, hope.
The second post comes from an episode in which Bethberry is critically injured during a seastorm:

Quote:
posted 06-09-2002 12:04 PM *Bethberry lay insensible and motionless upon the thin mattress and wooden berth where Aglod and Arcon had left her. Yet her mind was in dream, far from stilled.*

Mother, Mother, the coracle spins and sways so wildly I cannot control or guide it. Sing me a song to quell the waters. I fear it will be torn to shreds. [NB a reference to a previous ride down the Withywindle in the character's past.]

Daughter, the flowing of all waters seeks its own rhythm and movement since the world was bent and the winds rounded. Each time has its own purpose and being. Ride with the waters rather than against them. Listen to the music of the current and catch its drift, for this is indeed a wild washing day.

*Slowly and wordlessly, Bethberry's mind recalled the song her mother had once sung for her and melded it to this new sea voyage.*

I grew where life had come to me, along
a reedy shore. And now I lie in foaming waves
Tossed far from known shore.
Around about us sweeps the cold,
with watery arms and stunning gale;
But through the wind I sing my song,
calling to shore and sea.
We seek a truth more noble here
Than greed or selfish passage.
A shadow spreads across the land,
which all of good would halt.
A seeing stone has fallen now into most idle hands.
It must be broke or brought to right,
as we have sworn to do.
We fain would seek your roaring swells
To guide us from the deep.

*The song seemed to reverberate not through air but through her body to the wooden rafters and beams, out the hull and thence sounded through the seas. From somewhere beyond the Outer Edge, Uinen heard the song from the daughter of one she had known and took compassion on the mariners. So Urinen turned to Ossë, saying, "For the love of the Teleri and the Falathrim, quell the torrent even though the world be bent."*

*And the waters grew calmer, but as they did, Bethberry became agitated, shaking in her small mariner's berth, wrapped in dream and soaked in brine and sweat.*
So, it would appear that you and I share remarkably similar interpretations. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]


Looking forward to further discussions, and with a friendly nod to Gandalf in remembrance of journeys past, [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Bethberry

[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]
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