Merry and Pippin captured

In the book of TtT, Pippin is the one that arranges their escape from the orcs. But since he is such a weak character in the movies, do you think they will change that?

[Brinniel]

Well, I certainly hope not. Personally, I think PJ needs to show that Pippin is smarter than he appears. I believe Pippin does drop his brooch in the movie, so perhaps that means he will also come up with an escape. Unfortunately, I do not know anything for sure.

I agree with you on the making him smarter. He was very rebelious in the boks, and now he's just tagging after Merry!

[Diamond18]

My thoughts exactly. Comic relief is all well and good in the Shire, but c'mon, this guy is going to the be THE Thain of the Tooks, Counsellor of the North-Kingdom...Prince of the Halflings (tehe). etc.<P>Merry was unconcious a great deal in the book, but in all the shots in the trailers he is wide awake. I have a feeling he is going to continue to dominate...but it's just a feeling. I could be wrong...I usually am.

Well, Merry was a strong enough person, and a bit of a leader, after all, he stabbed a nazgul, cut off orc arms, and organized their whole conspiracy, but Pippin was not merely following. (no, he was getting in trouble with Gandalf...)I wonder if any of the people making the movies ever check out these posts or anything?

[Elven Mistress]

<sigh> if PJ <I>did</I> put in that it was Pippin who dropped the brooch and everything, it'll probably be by accident. he's too funny in the first movie to do any real thinking in the second one. It would be like whiplash to a person who never read the book...<P>I don't think that Pippin will get the credit he deserves in the third or second movie for all that he does...he's a typical comic relief character and it's kinda sad...

[Kalimac]

I don't know; I'm holding out hope that Pippin will get his moment of glory with dropping the brooch etc. The reason I say this is that in the first movie, even though he's portrayed as being the Shire's class clown while Merry is slightly more serious, he starts becoming much more serious towards the end. During the last scene he and Merry are pretty much acting as equals when they start running to divert the Orcs (no, that wasn't in the book but it was a nice addition in the film as it showed they were capable of something besides being rescued from the consequences of their own idiocy). And in the scene where Boromir is shot, they both rush the Orcs and are only carried away after resisting as much as possible. <P>Since at the end of FOTR, M & P are doing these things as equals, I think there's enough room for the leadership spotlight to start shifting towards Pippin. Even in the book, M & P don't really come into their own until TTT. Besides, in the movie it would make a nice contrast, the way it does in the book - Pippin drops the brooch on purpose (I don't think that PJ would have the Elves be so sloppy in their work that he could ACCIDENTALLY drop an Elvish brooch) and by thinking with the seat of his pants, so to speak, manages to get them out of immediate danger; then Merry, who read the maps at Rivendell, takes over for the less frantic, more intellectual part of their escape. It's certainly much more interesting than having Pippin play Follow the Leader all the way, and besides, PJ is going to have to start setting Pippin up for his scenes with Denethor, Faramir, and Palantir, so why not do it early? That's my hope, anyway.<P>One thing - the trailers so far have shown very little of Merry and Pippin (rather to my disappointment, as it happens ) and all the shots seem to be from one scene - M & P awake, on the ground, and looking up. This could well be the last scene of their captivity, when Grishnakh takes them both off together and tries to frighten them into giving him information/the Ring. Merry was awake for this and even played along when Pippin started saying "Gollum, gollum," and so forth, so Merry being awake wouldn't mean too much. Also I believe this was one of only two brief periods of their captivity when the two of them were allowed to be together; incidentally, both times they were together, Merry was awake if groggy.<P>That's assuming PJ has stuck to the book on this one, more or less. Hopefully he has - if nothing else I'd like to hear the Orcs cussing each other out in Black Speech as Pippin slowly wakes up and starts rethinking his previous unstrategical approach to things...

[Birdland]

I think Merry and Pippin will come into their own in TT. After all, they did jump on the back of a cave troll in the first film, and attacked the Uruk-Hai (After standing their with their mouths hanging open while Boromir got turned into a pincushion.)<P>And in the first trailer, they do show Aragorn picking up the brooch from the grass, so it DOES get dropped by someone.

[Rose Cotton]

Even if Pippin does decide to drop his broach I can imagine PJ having Merry giving Pippin the idea instead of Pip thinking of it himself. I really hope not though.

[elfling]

I think both characters were cheated in the movie. Merry was more of a leader in the book, no question. Pippin really didn't do much on his own in the books until the orcs have them, so hopefully PJ will evolve both their characters as the books did even though PJ has more catch-up to do. Alot of you guys really like Pippin,huh?

I sure hope Pippin comes into his own. He has to look into the palantir too. Wonder if they'll cut that?

[Diamond18]

There's a discussion going on about that in "A BIG movie blooper", BTW. The Palantír scene, I mean.<P>I have resolved to expect a middling approach. I think PJ will continue to make Pippin dumber than in the book, but that the "What about second breakfast" Pippin from the first movie will mature a little bit. An ever so little bit, just out of necessity. <P>If things turn out better than that, I will be pleasantly surprised. It's sure better than expecting the best and being disappointed.<P>I have a friend who read the books four years ago, and says he's going to re-read them after RotK comes out. When I told him Pippin is my favorite character and (when he asked me) that if I could be anyone from the book I'd be Diamond of Long Cleeve, he called Pippin a twit and said he didn't know what I saw in him.<P>I told him that he just didn't remember what Pippin was really like in the book because he'd let the movie overshadow it.<P>[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]<P>Oh, and also, Kalimac, I don't really think Merry and Pippin were acting as equals at the end of FotR. Pippin wondered what Frodo was doing, and Merry figured it out (how I dunno, that deduction seemed to be beyond even Merry, but I digress). Then Pippin runs out like a fool, Merry decides to utilize the blunder to chase away the Uruk-hai, and Pippin goes, "It's working!" and Merry has to say, "I know it's working! RUN!"<BR>He might as well have said, "Run you fool!".<P>[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]<p>[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

I'm somewhat relieved, I just read an article saying that Pippin is going to mature a ton. *phew* it was in a report about Billy Boyd, who said Pippin starts being more responsible. Phew!

[Diamond18]

Where? I WANT TO SEE THAT!!!! (now there goes my expect-less-so-I-won't-be-as-disappointed approach right out the window)

Here it is, it was on another forum, someone put it in<BR><hr><BR>SCOTS star Billy Boyd has revealed how he thought he was going to die during the filming of the second Lord Of The Rings movie.<BR>In the next instalment, The Two Towers, Billy's character Pippin has to undergo terrible tortures at the hands of the Uruk-Hai and Orcs.<BR>And the actor admits it was all too realistic for his liking. He says: "It was a horrible experience. I even feared for my life in one scene.<BR>"The Orcs have costumes made of spikes and they were throwing me and Dom (Dominic Monaghan, who plays Merry) around. I was close to getting speared by an Orc and was thinking to myself ... `that would be a strange way to go'.<BR>"But I was lucky. In the first film I was bitten on the backside by a horse, but this time I managed to remain unscathed."<BR>At the beginning of the summer, Billy, who will be 34 on Wednesday, returned to New Zealand to shoot new scenes. He spent three weeks filming and doing overdubs for old footage where his speech had been drowned out by special effects or electric fans.<BR>In the first film, Billy's Pippin Took was the clown - but cinema-goers will see a very different Pippin in The Two Towers.<BR>Billy says: "It's a very dark story and it's important to have some sort of release for the audience. Pippin became the focus for this in the first film - he was the sort of character who, when they were in danger, would have a bath.<BR>"But in The Two Towers, he begins to grow up and realises his naivete causes problems. What was charming in the Shire, like stealing cabbages, can get people killed."<BR>The title of the new film has caused some concern in America. At the beginning of the year, an online petition urged director Peter Jackson to rename the film because of the September 11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York.<BR>But The Two Towers was first published in 1954 by JRR Tolkien and Billy reckons Jackson was right to stand firm. He says: "The books were written nearly 50 years before the atrocities. We shouldn't allow terrorists to affect stories that have been told for years."<BR>BILLY has become a global star thanks to the Pippin role, ranking with Scots film heavyweights such as Sean Connery, Ewan McGregor and Dougray Scott.<BR>His next project is with Russell Crowe in yet another blockbuster - the naval adventure Master And Commander.<BR>While he was shooting scenes for The Two Towers, he was in the middle of preparing for his new role, which led to an identity crisis.<BR>He explains: "It's been two years since we filmed the three Rings films. It was like stepping back in time when I first walked on set.<BR>"It didn't feel like two years, but as I was saying my lines, director Peter Jackson stopped me and said ... `your voice is sounding a bit low for Pippin. Are you turning into a pirate?'.<BR>"I was mortified at that and realised I was slipping into my part in Master And Commander. But it came back soon enough. Playing Pippin again was just like saying hello to an old friend."<BR>Billy was speaking from the production office at the Fox Studios, in Baja, Mexico, where he has been filming for the past seven weeks.<BR>Master And Commander is set on a British warship at the time of the Napoleonic wars. Billy plays Barrett Bonden, coxswain to Captain Jack Aubrey, played by Crowe.<BR>The dollars 135 million high-seas adventure is adapted from the book by Patrick O'Brian, who based Aubrey on the true maritime adventures of Hamilton- born Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane. The film features the largest active wooden sailing vessel in the world, The Rose, which is an exact replica of an 19th century Royal Navy frigate.<BR>All the cast including Billy, Russell and Paul Bettany, who plays Aubrey's surgeon and friend Dr Stephen Maturin, had to undergo tough training.<BR>As well as learning how a three-mast frigate sails, they also had to climb up the rigging, learn to swordfight, put up huge sails and curb nausea in the Crow's Nest.<BR>Billy says: "It has been amazing. I learned so much - but the best bit was finding out sailors were given a ration of rum every day, so most of the time they were drunk. No wonder so many kept sinking."<BR>Although Gladiator star Crowe has a reputation for being difficult, Billy says: "He's a cool guy, a great person to be around. It's amazing meeting famous people, but it's not that surreal when you are living it."<BR>Despite his success, Billy hasn't forgotten his roots. In May, he spent 10 days playing an astronaut in the low-budget short film Sniper 407, which was premiered at the Edinburgh Film Festival and will be shown on Grampian and Scottish television in October. But it's not just work that brings Billy home.<BR>He says: "I love being in Scotland. I'm looking forward to getting back and having a pint - there's only so much San Miguel you can drink."<P>r.fulton@dailyrecord.co.uk<P>QUIZ RINGS OF TRUTH ..<P>1. Which village is home to Frodo and Bilbo Baggins?<P>A. Hobbiton. Of course he'd know this one - he lives there, for Frodo's sake.<P>2. Who is the youngest of the four Hobbits in the Fellowship Of The Ring?<P>A. Pippin. A trick question, but Billy's too smart for us - it probably helped that it was the part he played.<P>3. What will the next Harry Potter film be called?<P>A. Something to do with Phoenix? No. Harry Potter And The Chamber Of Secrets was the right answer, but he shouldn't get that since Rings and Potter are seen as rivals.<P>4. What is the name of Spider-Man's girlfriend?<P>A. Mary-Jane Watson. Gandalf may call Pippin a Fool of a Took, but we don't think so. Correct again.<P>5. What is the original name of Darth Vader?<P>A. Anakin Skywalker.<P>4/5 This is one Hobbit who could outsmart Sauron, the Dark Lord.

[Diamond18]

Thanks!<BR>Notice that whoever was writing that article erroniously remarked that Pippin lived in Hobbiton? (The quiz part) Ha! He was from Tuckborough. Some people...

[Diamond18]

I just had a funny thought...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 4/5 This is one Hobbit who could outsmart Sauron, the Dark Lord. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I was copying the article for that friend who thinks Pippin is a twit, and reading that part again made me picture Pippin looking into the Palantír and saying, "Okay, Sauron, pop quiz! What was Darth Vader's original name?"<P>Sauron: "Er...Melkor?"

*dies laughing* agh...I can see it...Sauron finds out hobbits are to be feared!

[Helkasir]

Well, if you look at it, the character development is huge in TTT. The first movie more or less introduced characters, "Killed one off" and such, and by the breaking, each person in the fellow ship really sort of gets their own story. Pippin was far more of a comic relief in the first book than in the second, if you look at it. You know, Boromir was shot down in front of him, he probably grew up a bit after having been through the whole well incident. Pippin doesn't HAVE Gandalf or strider or fven Frodo to lead. I think both he and Merry, being around eachother so much, will finally seperate in terms of "Character."

[Rose Cotton]

I think that there will be a change in Pippins charicter in RotK too. Because even though Merry and Pippin don't have the rest of the fellowship they still have eachother to depend on. Then in RotK they get split up for the first time in the whole story. The only familar face Pippin has is Gandalf who dosn't seem familar because of his new wardrobe. Pippin has to stand on his own two feet in Gondor. And then as if to prove he has grown Pippin has to save Faramir.

And after that he has to slay a troll! which then sqishes him flat...

[elfling]

Oh, pipsqueak I hate that part. I'm more of a Merry fan but I dread the movie part when Pippin gets squished. Thanks for the article. Glad to hear Pippin and Merry come into their own alittle. They were great in the books.

[Diamond18]

I wonder, will the troll that Pippin kills be as big as the one in Moria? There's no way he could survive that kind of crush.

Probly bigger...a troll cheiftain or sumthin, I recall...he was bigger then from the ent draughts. I wonder how they will show that part?

[Kalimac]

Diamond, now that I think about it, you're right about Pippin sort of jumping out like an idiot and Merry quick-wittedly turning it into a diversion. But you have to admit that for BOTH of them this is a very gutsy thing to do compared with the firework-loving pranksters of the early movie (and the inn-obsessed Pippin of the book). So while Pippin may still be less mature than Merry, he's much more mature than the Merry of the beginning of the story. I'm probably wrong, but I'm still holding out hope that Pippin gets his moment in TTT - if nothing else, it makes so much sense; if they leave in the part about Merry being unconscious half the time, Pippin will be forced to act on his own and will discover resources he never knew he had. And of course this will prepare him for those little businesses with the Palantir, Denethor and Faramir . <P>As for the troll, I could never figure that out either. My guess would be that the troll happened to fall at a very fortunate angle so that Pippin ended up under the curve of his neck or the curve of an arm or some part of the body that wasn't flat on the ground. Even in the book the troll is described as being pretty monstrous and Tolkien is a little vague as to where exactly under the troll Pippin was situation. But for a foot to be showing, he probably had to be under an extremity, otherwise he would have just been completely covered (and squashed).