Are the Elves Foolish?

"Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes."
Frodo Baggins

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill."
Gildor Inglorion

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill."
Gildor Inglorion

You speak of a wise & powerful High Elf. Do you believe all elves fall into this category?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Maybe you should better specify your question, then. I believe that if an Elf "answers both no and yes", he does that for a good reason. Those who are all hurry into doing or not doing something would I consider "foolish", but to them the "proverb" does not apply. For example (sorry to all Fëanor-fans) Fëanor could be considered "foolish" in his furious "revolution". And here I think is a good example: if an elf asked his friend whether he should or should not join Fëanor's campagin, a "wise" elf could say both no and yes like this: "Well, you see, you're probably going to suffer and maybe even cause trouble to others and in the end you won't reach your goal. However, I'm not saying that the campaign will be totally useless, because the Noldor could help the other inhabitants of Middle-Earth and protect them from the Enemy." A "non-wise" elf will then be all rallying for Fëanor or judging the whole campaign as totally useless. Neither of these two possibilities, as we know from the story, can be with clean conscience marked to be true.

[Elmo]

yes they are no and no they aren't

Originally Posted by Elmo

yes they are no and no they aren't

Do you want a piece of Gandalf's staff too? This is a serious thread question, not a Hobbit chit-chat session.

[Boromir88]

Let's give Frodo's statement about Elves a little bit of context. I've always liked the meeting with Gildor, because it provides a little bit of light-hearted banter between Frodo and the Elves (if I remember Gildor says hobbits were 'boring.' ) Anyway...

Gildor was silent for a moment. 'I do not like this news,' he said at last. 'That Gandalf should be late, does not bode well. But it is said: Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. The choice is yours: to go or wait.'

Which promps Frodo's response about not going to the Elves for advice, as Gildor just said both 'yes and no.'

'And it is also said,' answered Frodo. 'Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.'

On a personal level, I found this rather funny because my niece tells me all the time I'm the same way, and gets angry as I say both 'yes and no.' It's not that the Elves are indecisive, or foolish, just that I don't think making decisions should be treated that simple.

To use Legate's example, it's not wise to make a decision if you don't know the positives and negatives of all the options. If you throw your support behind just one of the options (either 'rally behind Feanor' or 'stay away from him') that's arguably not good advice.

I've always believed 'good advice' in the way Gildor approaches it; to make a good decision you have to weigh all your options, not just one. Another key is leaving the choice up to the person making the decision.

'Here are the positives and negatives if you do this, here are the positives and negatives if you dont. Ok, now you make your choice.'

Which, of course to Frodo (and my niece) looks like you're saying 'yes and no.'

Gandalf always approaches it the same way, he can be at times more, how should I say, 'aggressive' but he always leaves the decision up to the individual. He doesn't force Denethor, Theoden, Saruman, or anyone to listen to his advice...Gandalf is all about the individual making their own decision.

'Now Theoden son of Thengel, will you hearken to me?...Do you ask for help?'~King of the Golden Hall