Orcrist - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

deal_with_it · 03-31-2006, 08:48 PM

Why didn't Dain use Orcrist during the Battle of Dale or loan it to Gimli for the Quest?

Is it some sort of Dwarven ritual? Thorin wouldn't have cared. He's dead.

alatar · 03-31-2006, 09:11 PM

I would say that there are two reasons for leaving Orcrist, "Biter," where it lay. First, as many peoples and races honored their dead by burying them with the dead's possessions and beloved artifacts, like Thorin with his sword and the Arkenstone, one doesn't then wait a while to take the objects back from the dead. Also, my guess is that these magical and great items have to be 'lost,' or there would be nothing fun to look for in later ages (plus you don't want a First Age weapon on the streets during the Fifth Age...).

I cannot see Dain or his folk to be so desperate as to desecrate the tomb of their 'father' just for the use of a sword.

Welcome to the Downs.

Eonwe · 04-01-2006, 02:41 PM

If I recall correctly, its broken in the Battle of Five Armies. Perhaps there was not skill to reforge it?

Thinlómien · 04-01-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

If I recall correctly, its broken in the Battle of Five Armies. Perhaps there was not skill to reforge it?

I can't check right now, but I think it wasn't.

deal_with_it · 04-01-2006, 08:44 PM

I never heard it was broken, but I may be wrong

I just wasn't sure (if it was whole) whether or not it was buried with THorin or not. If it was I could see not digging it up, but in a life threatening situation I might take that chance.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp

"The sword of Thorin Oakenshield, discovered by him in a troll-hoard on his journey to Erebor, and buried with him after his death in the Battle of Five Armies.

Notes
1 Exactly what happened to Orcrist at Thorin's funeral isn't completely clear. The Hobbit tells us that the sword was placed by Thranduil 'upon his tomb', and that it 'gleamed ever in the dark if foes approached' (The Hobbit 18, The Return Journey). These quotes seem to suggest that Orcrist wasn't actually buried with Thorin, but instead just laid on his tomb.

In The Lord of the Rings, there's a suggestion that this may have changed. We are told there that Orcrist '...lay now upon the breast of Thorin...' (The Fellowship of the Ring II 3, The Ring Goes South). This seems to suggest that the sword was actually placed within Thorin's tomb, and not just placed on it, though this text is admittedly ambiguous."

Eonwe · 04-02-2006, 11:32 AM

Hmm, I seem have a propensity for making things up...

03-31-2006, 08:48 PM	#1
deal_with_it Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 42	Orcrist Why didn't Dain use Orcrist during the Battle of Dale or loan it to Gimli for the Quest? Is it some sort of Dwarven ritual? Thorin wouldn't have cared. He's dead.

03-31-2006, 09:11 PM	#2
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I would say that there are two reasons for leaving Orcrist, "Biter," where it lay. First, as many peoples and races honored their dead by burying them with the dead's possessions and beloved artifacts, like Thorin with his sword and the Arkenstone, one doesn't then wait a while to take the objects back from the dead. Also, my guess is that these magical and great items have to be 'lost,' or there would be nothing fun to look for in later ages (plus you don't want a First Age weapon on the streets during the Fifth Age...). I cannot see Dain or his folk to be so desperate as to desecrate the tomb of their 'father' just for the use of a sword. Welcome to the Downs. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

04-01-2006, 02:41 PM	#3
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	If I recall correctly, its broken in the Battle of Five Armies. Perhaps there was not skill to reforge it? __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!

04-01-2006, 08:44 PM	#5
deal_with_it Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 42	The Goblin Cleaver I never heard it was broken, but I may be wrong I just wasn't sure (if it was whole) whether or not it was buried with THorin or not. If it was I could see not digging it up, but in a life threatening situation I might take that chance. http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp "The sword of Thorin Oakenshield, discovered by him in a troll-hoard on his journey to Erebor, and buried with him after his death in the Battle of Five Armies. Notes 1 Exactly what happened to Orcrist at Thorin's funeral isn't completely clear. The Hobbit tells us that the sword was placed by Thranduil 'upon his tomb', and that it 'gleamed ever in the dark if foes approached' (The Hobbit 18, The Return Journey). These quotes seem to suggest that Orcrist wasn't actually buried with Thorin, but instead just laid on his tomb. In The Lord of the Rings, there's a suggestion that this may have changed. We are told there that Orcrist '...lay now upon the breast of Thorin...' (The Fellowship of the Ring II 3, The Ring Goes South). This seems to suggest that the sword was actually placed within Thorin's tomb, and not just placed on it, though this text is admittedly ambiguous."

04-02-2006, 11:32 AM	#6
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	Hmm, I seem have a propensity for making things up... __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!