Instant death? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morsul the Dark · 11-22-2005, 10:00 AM

Arwen is old...very old and shes like I want to give up immortality for aragorn considered her age wouldnt she go "Im mortal" and suddenly keal over and die of old age?
how does giving up your immortality work?

ElentariGreenleaf · 11-22-2005, 10:59 AM

I believe (please correct me if i'm wrong ^_^; ) that Arwen gave up her immortality before or around the time she married Aragorn. Although she was mortal now, she still outlived Aragorn because she was still an Elf, just not an immortal one. Once Aragorn had died she became lonely and eventually wandered off into Lorien to die (I think. Man I'm not good at this kinda stuff)

Kath · 11-22-2005, 12:18 PM

I see your point Morsul, but I have no clue as to the answer. Because she is so old as an Elf it seems that she should just die as a human, but then the story doesn't say she becomes human, just mortal. So I suppose that yes she is going to die but not immediately she stops being an Elf.

If you made any sense out of that I congratulate you!

Gothmog · 11-22-2005, 12:43 PM

Just look at Elros! He chose to become mortal, took Tar-Minyatur and lived for 500 years.

And why should Arwen die at once? She was old, that's true but her body wasn't old like a human body would be after that long. Apparently elves can keep their bodies young, hence their timeless looks. She shouldn't die of old age until her mortal body has grown old. You or me wouldn't die even if we lived for 500 years if our body could find a way of preserve itself, or even better renew itself. A person isn't killed by age itself, but by the effect it has on the body.

I don't know how giving up mortality works, but I can't see a reason why Arwen should die the moment she declares herself mortal.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 11-22-2005, 01:03 PM

It was decided by the Valar that she would stay by Elrond's side as an Elf, or part from him and suffer the Doom of Men. Since she chose Aragorn – and the Doom of Men – it would have been bad form of the Valar to let her die immediately and have her choice be all for nothing. And the Valar are good; so she was granted a life with Aragorn.

Gurthang · 11-22-2005, 01:23 PM

I think what Arwen gave up was not necessarily immortality as we think of it.

We think of immortality as living forever, being invincible, incapable of dying. But Elvish immortalness was not such, because Elves could and did die. The reason they are immortal is that they won't die unless they are killed by something and even then their spirits simply go to Valinor. They still exist in the same world.

Men's death is different, for they leave the world, and go somewhere else.

So when Arwen gives up immortality, I think she was giving up staying in Arda when she died. I would think she could still live forever in Middle-Earth, since her Elvish body wouldn't age(as Gothmog points out), but when something did kill her, she would leave the Circles of the World, unlike her Elvish family.

Lolidir · 12-11-2005, 10:18 PM

I'm not sure if this will be deleted or what not but it has something to do with the topic.

I was watching the TT today and it talked about Arwen's fate being tied to the ring. I take the to mean that if the ring isn't detroyed and ME is taken over and everyone is enslaved and so forth that would be her fate also. Now i'm not sure what happened in the book ( I don't think it really says), but in the movie Arwen gets all weak and is like dying. Elrond puts it, "The light of the Valar is leaving her" or something like that. My question is why does she appear to be weak and dying, or is she just all depressed and if so about what?.

She gave up her immortality and became mortal and her fate was then tied to the ring. Does that have some deeper meaning, or just what I said?

Simply put how exactly is Arwen's fate tied to the ring.

11-22-2005, 10:00 AM	#1
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Instant death? Arwen is old...very old and shes like I want to give up immortality for aragorn considered her age wouldnt she go "Im mortal" and suddenly keal over and die of old age? how does giving up your immortality work? __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

11-22-2005, 10:59 AM	#2
ElentariGreenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Look, I'm over there! Posts: 496	I believe (please correct me if i'm wrong ^_^; ) that Arwen gave up her immortality before or around the time she married Aragorn. Although she was mortal now, she still outlived Aragorn because she was still an Elf, just not an immortal one. Once Aragorn had died she became lonely and eventually wandered off into Lorien to die (I think. Man I'm not good at this kinda stuff) __________________ There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot. Website\|Art

11-22-2005, 12:18 PM	#3
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	I see your point Morsul, but I have no clue as to the answer. Because she is so old as an Elf it seems that she should just die as a human, but then the story doesn't say she becomes human, just mortal. So I suppose that yes she is going to die but not immediately she stops being an Elf. If you made any sense out of that I congratulate you! __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

11-22-2005, 12:43 PM	#4
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	Just look at Elros! He chose to become mortal, took Tar-Minyatur and lived for 500 years. And why should Arwen die at once? She was old, that's true but her body wasn't old like a human body would be after that long. Apparently elves can keep their bodies young, hence their timeless looks. She shouldn't die of old age until her mortal body has grown old. You or me wouldn't die even if we lived for 500 years if our body could find a way of preserve itself, or even better renew itself. A person isn't killed by age itself, but by the effect it has on the body. I don't know how giving up mortality works, but I can't see a reason why Arwen should die the moment she declares herself mortal. __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

11-22-2005, 01:03 PM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	It was decided by the Valar that she would stay by Elrond's side as an Elf, or part from him and suffer the Doom of Men. Since she chose Aragorn – and the Doom of Men – it would have been bad form of the Valar to let her die immediately and have her choice be all for nothing. And the Valar are good; so she was granted a life with Aragorn. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

11-22-2005, 01:23 PM	#6
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	I think what Arwen gave up was not necessarily immortality as we think of it. We think of immortality as living forever, being invincible, incapable of dying. But Elvish immortalness was not such, because Elves could and did die. The reason they are immortal is that they won't die unless they are killed by something and even then their spirits simply go to Valinor. They still exist in the same world. Men's death is different, for they leave the world, and go somewhere else. So when Arwen gives up immortality, I think she was giving up staying in Arda when she died. I would think she could still live forever in Middle-Earth, since her Elvish body wouldn't age(as Gothmog points out), but when something did kill her, she would leave the Circles of the World, unlike her Elvish family. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

12-11-2005, 10:18 PM	#7
Lolidir Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Roaming the plains of Middle Earth Posts: 103	A little something else. I'm not sure if this will be deleted or what not but it has something to do with the topic. I was watching the TT today and it talked about Arwen's fate being tied to the ring. I take the to mean that if the ring isn't detroyed and ME is taken over and everyone is enslaved and so forth that would be her fate also. Now i'm not sure what happened in the book ( I don't think it really says), but in the movie Arwen gets all weak and is like dying. Elrond puts it, "The light of the Valar is leaving her" or something like that. My question is why does she appear to be weak and dying, or is she just all depressed and if so about what?. She gave up her immortality and became mortal and her fate was then tied to the ring. Does that have some deeper meaning, or just what I said? Simply put how exactly is Arwen's fate tied to the ring. __________________ "Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to"