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02-05-2016, 08:46 PM | #1 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,329
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The Fellowship - doomed to fail
In a recent thread, "The Doom of the Ring," I made the following comment:
"It is clear that Frodo did not have the will to destroy the Ring himself, particularly after the grueling journey to and into Mordor. By the time he stood at Sammath Naur, he had possessed the Ring for 17 years. Isildur, who possessed it for perhaps a matter of hours, could not be convinced to destroy it. What is remarkable is that Frodo had the will to even travel to Mount Doom with the intent to do away with the Ring. I have often wondered what Gandalf, who feared contact with the Ring himself, intended to do if he came to Mount Doom with Frodo. Surely he at least suspected that Frodo would have to be coerced or "assisted" to destroy the Ring. Gollum's intervention, under the circumstances, was an ideal solution." Thinking about this, I wondered what was the plan? What could Gandalf have had in mind if the Fellowship, or some potion of it, reached Mount Doom? Was there any circumstance under which Frodo might have completed the quest voluntarily and destroyed the Ring? Could he have been coerced or assisted?
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02-05-2016, 10:31 PM | #2 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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A few possible ideas...
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On the other hand, given his experience with successfully persuading Bilbo to give up the Ring that perhaps Gandalf could have persuaded Frodo to destroy it...on the assumption that Gandalf intended to accompany Frodo to the end (which I think he did). However, on the whole I suspect the first answer is closer to the truth. Pushing Frodo into the Crack of Doom (as practical a solution as that would be) could not possibly have been contemplated.
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02-06-2016, 12:08 AM | #3 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Quote:
Faithfulness, as opposed to a need for certainty, seems to be a general distinction in characterisation between Gandalf and Saruman, and the reason the latter failed his mission - trying to force results by his own power, and that power which he could take, rather than accepting the role of a higher power in events. It goes back to Gandalf's remark about Bilbo and Frodo being "meant" to have the Ring, "and not by its maker."
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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02-06-2016, 06:45 AM | #4 | ||||
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 87
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So, I retain my previous stand on this matter: Quote:
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On a side note: Gandalf seems to forget about Cirdan and his own Ring of Power. Quote:
Last edited by Leaf; 02-06-2016 at 07:08 AM. |
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02-06-2016, 07:33 AM | #5 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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Quote:
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02-06-2016, 07:53 AM | #6 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Gandalf's "talent" was his ability to inspire, persuade and encourage others to act. As Leaf comments, this ability is enhanced by the Ring that Gandalf bears. Does this impact upon his ability to cajole or persuade Frodo to destroy the Ring?
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Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land. |
02-06-2016, 07:57 AM | #7 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I think Narya did help Gandalf to inspire. It was the Ring of Fire, and Círdan told him that with it Gandalf could "rekindle hearts" or something like that (don't have the books handy).
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
02-06-2016, 08:18 AM | #8 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 87
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Quote:
He needed all my help, too. And even so he would never have just forsaken it, or cast it aside. I think it's fair to assume that he would expand his verdict to other Ring-bearers and that destroying the Ring would imply casting it aside. His 'talent' went only so far to help convincing Bilbo to leave the Ring behind for Frodo, which is a huge success in that matter in the first place. Last edited by Leaf; 02-06-2016 at 08:41 AM. |
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02-06-2016, 02:13 PM | #9 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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I don't agree so much with this.
I think Gandalf believed that Sauron could triumph, but even in those dire circumstances he believed there was a correct way to go about doing things that ultimately involved putting the situation in the hands of Eru regardless of outcome. Quote:
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