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10-24-2011, 04:25 AM | #1 |
Princess of Skwerlz
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Unfinished Tales - Part One - I - Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin
Welcome to our chapter-by-chapter discussion of the Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth! This is, like the Silmarillion, a book of Tolkien's writings that was edited by his son Christopher and published post-humously. It contains exactly what the title says, stories that Tolkien began writing and never finished.
I find the style is more like Tolkien's in the LotR than the Silmarillion is. Perhaps it's because the tales come primarily from a Mannish point-of-view rather than from the Elvish. In the first story we read a more detailed account of Tuor, the human who made his way to the Hidden Kingdom of the Elves and fulfilled an important fate there. I will come back later with my personal impressions of this story but would like to open the discussion for everyone now. I look forward to reading your thoughts! Whether you take this discussion as an occasion to (re-)read the book or whether you post from memory, your contributions are all welcome.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
10-24-2011, 07:19 AM | #2 |
Dead Serious
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It's funny that you start by mentioning how the tales, in general, feel more like the LotR than the Silm, because the first thing I noticed in rereading "Of Tuor" was just how much it reminded me of the LotR. It had been a few years since I'd actually sat down to read UT, for which reason I'm quite excited about this new CbC series, since it gives me a golden opportunity to read each tale for itself, rather than just mining it for quotes.
I think it's hugely important to note that "Of Tuor" is a post-LotR piece, because I felt, at least, that Tolkien's style here was far more reminiscent of Frodo in Mordor or Pippin in Gondor than it was of the compressed Silmarillion version. And, after all, the Silmarillion proper is mostly a pre-LotR composition, albeit much added to and edited post-LotR, whereas Tuor is a fresh writing, even if the Book of Lost Tales manuscript was right in front of Tolkien. There are two elements, in particular, that reminded me of the LotR. The first was the character of the landscape, and the detail that Tolkien gives to it. Far more than any text in the Quenta Silmarillion, "Of Tuor" gives a vivid impression of Mithrim, the Ered Lomin, Nevrast, Faelivrin, the Vale of Sirion, and the Echoriath. The visualisation of these was as fully illustrated as any in the LotR, of which it is said that 'the landscape is one of the characters.' That is patently true here too. The second really close point of convergence for me was the sense of ancient that pervades Tuor's world. In the Silm, we don't really get a sense of how long the Noldor have lived in Middle-earth, because we see everything from their perspective, and we rush over the centuries of their rule quickly. By getting to see things from Tuor's Mannish perspective here, we're able to get those sort glimpses into a rich past that made the LotR so compelling: where the LotR has places like Moria and the Argonath and Helm's Deep, "Of Tuor" has the Gate of the Noldor and Vinyamar--and the entrance into Gondolin (which reminded me of nothing so much as Pippin's arrival in Minas Tirith with Gandalf). And, speaking of Gandalf, "Of Tuor" gives us the most "intimate" experience of a Valar in any piece of Tolkien's writing. Granted, we get a lot of the Valar in the Silmarillion, and they are almost given in more detail than the Elves, but there is still a remoteness in the Silm narrative that is not so present in "Of Tuor." Certainly, since the first time I read it, this has been the definitive account of Ulmo for me, and his lines here probably among my favourite pieces of dialogue in Tolkien's work. And, from Ulmo, we get the Sea. Tuor's encounter with Belegaer (said to be the first of any Man) and his months dwelling along the coast, together with Voronwë's tale, is the most compelling account of Sea-longing and the mystery of the Sea in all of Tolkien's later (post-Book of Lost Tales) work--far more direct and immediately felt than Legolas's retold account in the RotK. To conclude, there is no tale in UT that I find more compelling, and no tale Tolkien left unfinished that I wish he had finished more.
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10-24-2011, 08:33 AM | #3 |
Laconic Loreman
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I had used the UT as just a reference to cherry pick extra information or quotes from and fill in the gaps of The Silm and LOTR. But at the urging of one, Mr. Formendacil, when discussing the upcome CbC thread, I decided to go ahead and read this chapter. I feel kind of ashamed now, because it's such a beautiful story and I had gone all these years missing it. I would add more, but it would just get repetitive as I second the "this feels more like reading LOTR than The Silm."
And I can't seem to find a smaller part that stuck out to me. I believe it was Voronwe who commented how the courage of Men, who's fate is to die, would spend their limitted years risking death and fighting Morgoth. It's a pondering question in the difference between Elves and Men. Men don't view their mortality as a gift, and in this regard they can be reckless with their lives. But it also speaks of their courage to spend their limitted life in defense of the Elves fight against Morgoth. Elves on the other hand, not being able to die from age, are doomed to remember the pains and losses of their world.
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10-25-2011, 06:30 PM | #4 |
Dread Horseman
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It has been a long, long time since I read the Tales just for the sake of the stories themselves. Thanks, Esty, for getting me to pick up my old copy for sheer pleasure rather than as a resource for some debate or other.
The first thing that strikes me with "Tuor" is the post-apocalyptic feel of Hithlum -- Men and Elves taken as slaves and otherwise abused, evil Men running the show, orcs roaming to and fro at will, and the remnants of good folk relegated to secret and isolated communities. In LotR the Free Peoples are, well, free, and though the Shadow hangs over them, the West maintains several strongholds of civilization and simple goodness. Here in "Tuor", the vibe is more "Middle-earth-punk" than what we're used to from LotR, and I can't think of any tale in the Silmarillion that evokes quite the same dystopian tone. Another thing that strikes me is that Aragorn, in his "Strider" persona, carries on a bit of the "outlaw" tradition from this and other First Age tales. Anyway, a few scattered thoughts, such as they are. More later, perhaps. |
10-26-2011, 10:38 PM | #5 | |||
Laconic Loreman
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Going back to this quickly:
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Not all those who wander are lost. Here in this post-apocalyptic Hithlum, Tuor is an outlaw. He is a thrall in the very place that should be The House of Hador's. He's forced out of Hithlum and the tale is all of Tuor's wanderings. However, it's wandering with a purpose, a purpose forseen from the outset. We don't know why, and Tuor doesn't even seem to be able to explain it, but he is drawn to Gondolin. He feels spiritted by hearing Turgon's name and seeking out the Hidden City. Reaching Gondolin, the place that Tuor is continually told no Man would ever be permitted entrance to. It gives his wandering a purpose, otherwise he'd probably spent more of his days hiding in Androth. The last thing, I don't know what you call it, but it struck me as one of those wise Elven sayings, Tolkien loved creating, from Gelmir: Quote:
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Last edited by Boromir88; 10-26-2011 at 10:45 PM. |
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10-27-2011, 02:47 PM | #6 |
Princess of Skwerlz
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Just one brief comment from the beginning of this story:
What is it with Tolkien's wives and mothers?! Here we have yet another who effectively abandons her child (yes, she provided for fostering, but that's not the same as having an actual mother). Rather than staying with Tuor, Rían leaves him with the Elves and dies. Is life as a wife more important than life as a mother? Does her life end with that of her husband? This is an attitude I don't understand. That is echoed in Arwen's death after Aragorn died, and I'm trying to remember another example that doesn't occur to me right now.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
11-10-2011, 08:06 PM | #7 | ||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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The Two Cousins...
I just got a copy of UT from the library and started reading it (only a few pages in), and just couldn't resist making a note of an observation. Turin and Tuor are, actually, not that different in character, but different in approach:
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These are just some points on that old beaten-up topic. When I finish the chapter I'll look over the thread and maybe comment on some other things.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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11-11-2011, 02:55 PM | #8 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Having read the story to the end, I can just add myself to the host of people saying that it sounds so LOTR and that I absolutely love it and feel a bit cheated when the story ends. I wanted to get a glimpse of Turgon "in person".
However, I must say that Tuor is one darn lucky guy. Half of the time he just "feels" something is right and follows, and it's his good fate that it really is something good. His way is shown for him. Ulmo even talks for him. It's not fair!!! And toward the end of the story I had a weird image of Moses comming to the Pharaoh to get him to "let his people go". Though Tuor is not asking for a group of Elvesto leave, he really does seem a bit Moses-y. PS: this chapter also helped explain some Downers' profiles *coughLegatecough*
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 11-11-2011 at 03:06 PM. |
11-19-2011, 03:03 PM | #9 | ||
Princess of Skwerlz
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I would like to comment on one aspect of this story that has not yet been mentioned - music! (Bet you're surprised... ) Since Ulmo is important in this narrative, and he is the Vala most associated with music, and his element of water is that within which the Music of creation lives on, this is hardly astonishing. However, it is Tuor who is the active musician here. He both sings and plays the harp - skilfully, it is said. The first time that his music-making is mentioned, it is instrumental (pun unintentional, but too nice to remove!) in leading him in the right direction.
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Ulmo does play one single note on his horn later, and Tuor then sees a vision of the waters of the world. I can't help but wonder if music plays a role in the positive fate of Tuor. I don't recall reading about Túrin singing or playing, at least nothing decisive. Could the music have kept Tuor more closely connected with the will of the Valar, specifically Ulmo? The last mention of music in this chapter is the one that fascinates me most. Tuor approaches the seventh gate: Quote:
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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11-19-2011, 05:07 PM | #10 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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However, as far as Tuor is concerned, one of the most important musical moments of his life story is probably when he sings to Earendil about the Sea in The Sil. Quote:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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11-19-2011, 05:11 PM | #11 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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I don't recall any mention of Túrin doing any singing or instrumental playing. Perhaps Tuor's affinity toward music merely signified from Ulmo's point of view an openness on the part of the former to listen to his heart, and not allow his physical surroundings and personal desires to rule all his actions. There is, I think, something special about singers and musicians IRL, and an argument could be made for Arda as well. x/d with G55
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11-19-2011, 05:51 PM | #12 | |
Late Istar
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There is at least one instance of Turin making music that I can think of immediately: the Laer Cu Beleg, or Song of the Great Bow, that he sings for Beleg after his death. But I'd have to agree that one gets the impression that Tuor was the more musical of the two cousins.
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Last edited by Aiwendil; 11-19-2011 at 06:02 PM. |
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