Author, Reader, or Text? (aka Canonicity Slapdown 2005) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fordim Hedgethistle · 07-11-2005, 02:18 PM

All right, let's just settle this (and maybe this) once and for all.

davem · 07-11-2005, 02:32 PM

I say we all line up & throw heavy sharp objects at Fordim, 'cos I think he just wants to start a row

I'm going to avoid this one, I think - you all know how much I hate repeating myself

alatar · 07-11-2005, 02:40 PM

How many times can I vote, and how many of the choices can I select for each vote?

The reason that I ask is that my answer would be dependent on whichever of my personalities is dominant/running the ship that day (skeptic, scientist, La-La-lander, peacemaker, antagonist, conformist, reader, writer, PJ-fanboy, etc).

Is there an "Other" or "None of the above" selection?

VanimaEdhel · 07-11-2005, 02:52 PM

Hmm...at least we seem to be of accord thus far.

Lalwendë · 07-11-2005, 02:52 PM

OK, do you think I ought to be facetious and vote for option 4? I don't want to settle the discussion once and for all! Although they give me headaches and such threads are an addiction I can easily do without, they do get me running (well, metaphorically running anyway, very little actually gets me literally running) to the computer to see what everyone's gone and posted. I'm not totally sold on any of the reader theories anyway.

Unless *puts fingers together in a Sherlock-Holmes-deducing-a-motive fashion* Fordim is sneakily trying to get that whole Canonicity thing up and running again?

VanimaEdhel · 07-11-2005, 02:58 PM

Well, you see, in my opinion, it is up to the reader. But when discussing the religion of Tolkien, my personal belief is that he wouldn't have wanted me wandering around with an Eagle pendant around my neck muttering "Unto thee, oh Saint Frodo, I am devoted" - so I don't. Others are free to do so if they are of a mind.

***Mister Underhill*** · 07-11-2005, 03:15 PM

Where's the middle-ground -- the collaboration between author and reader?

davem · 07-11-2005, 03:17 PM

Sneaks in wearing big hat & false beard & using assumed name so as not to look like a hypocrite....

Where's option five - The meaning is to be found in the glimpse it provides of 'joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief'?

Fordim Hedgethistle · 07-29-2005, 06:32 PM

From the second post in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

I say we all line up & throw heavy sharp objects at Fordim, 'cos I think he just wants to start a row

I'm going to avoid this one, I think - you all know how much I hate repeating myself

May he who is without repetition cast the first heavy sharp object...

Kuruharan · 07-11-2005, 07:15 PM

I was torn. I am of the opinion that options A and C are joined at the hip.

However, in my experience in taking multiple choice exams (which I regret to say is considerable) C is usually the right answer...

Aiwendil · 07-11-2005, 08:55 PM

The answer is C, Text.

Glad I could help.

Lhunardawen · 07-11-2005, 10:30 PM

I sincerely doubt Tolkien ever had these words in mind as he wrote the books...

"This is what I want it to mean, okay? If you take it in other ways you better put the book down."

In most cases, at least.

HerenIstarion · 07-12-2005, 12:27 AM

Empirically, I know there is no possible way of changing a poll once it is set, and that's bad, as I would have voted option E - all four of the above. Therefore I won't vote

As for the 'intended row' - let's have one - I'm bit thirsty after monthful of abstination!

EDIT: I did vote option 4 after some consideration.

Estelyn Telcontar · 07-12-2005, 12:43 AM

How could I possibly cast a vote on only one of the first three options? They're so restrictive if each stands alone! I'm withholding so far, but I just might be ornery and vote for D if the mood strikes me...

View Poll Results: The meaning of The Lord of the Rings is to be found in
The intention of the author	6	11.11%
The experience of the reader	29	53.70%
Analysis of the text	12	22.22%
I haven't the faintest idea, I just think the book is cool	7	12.96%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

07-11-2005, 02:18 PM	#1
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Author, Reader, or Text? (aka Canonicity Slapdown 2005) All right, let's just settle this (and maybe this) once and for all. __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

07-11-2005, 02:32 PM	#2
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I say we all line up & throw heavy sharp objects at Fordim, 'cos I think he just wants to start a row I'm going to avoid this one, I think - you all know how much I hate repeating myself __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

07-11-2005, 02:40 PM	#3
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	How many times can I vote, and how many of the choices can I select for each vote? The reason that I ask is that my answer would be dependent on whichever of my personalities is dominant/running the ship that day (skeptic, scientist, La-La-lander, peacemaker, antagonist, conformist, reader, writer, PJ-fanboy, etc). Is there an "Other" or "None of the above" selection? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

07-11-2005, 02:52 PM	#4
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	Hmm...at least we seem to be of accord thus far. __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

07-11-2005, 02:52 PM	#5
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	OK, do you think I ought to be facetious and vote for option 4? I don't want to settle the discussion once and for all! Although they give me headaches and such threads are an addiction I can easily do without, they do get me running (well, metaphorically running anyway, very little actually gets me literally running) to the computer to see what everyone's gone and posted. I'm not totally sold on any of the reader theories anyway. Unless puts fingers together in a Sherlock-Holmes-deducing-a-motive fashion Fordim is sneakily trying to get that whole Canonicity thing up and running again? __________________ Gordon's alive!

07-11-2005, 02:58 PM	#6
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	Well, you see, in my opinion, it is up to the reader. But when discussing the religion of Tolkien, my personal belief is that he wouldn't have wanted me wandering around with an Eagle pendant around my neck muttering "Unto thee, oh Saint Frodo, I am devoted" - so I don't. Others are free to do so if they are of a mind. __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

07-11-2005, 03:15 PM	#7
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	Where's the middle-ground -- the collaboration between author and reader?

07-11-2005, 03:17 PM	#8
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Sneaks in wearing big hat & false beard & using assumed name so as not to look like a hypocrite.... Where's option five - The meaning is to be found in the glimpse it provides of 'joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief'? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

07-11-2005, 07:15 PM	#10
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	I was torn. I am of the opinion that options A and C are joined at the hip. However, in my experience in taking multiple choice exams (which I regret to say is considerable) C is usually the right answer... __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

07-11-2005, 08:55 PM	#11
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	The answer is C, Text. Glad I could help.

07-11-2005, 10:30 PM	#12
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	B I sincerely doubt Tolkien ever had these words in mind as he wrote the books... "This is what I want it to mean, okay? If you take it in other ways you better put the book down." In most cases, at least.

07-12-2005, 12:27 AM	#13
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	Empirically, I know there is no possible way of changing a poll once it is set, and that's bad, as I would have voted option E - all four of the above. Therefore I won't vote As for the 'intended row' - let's have one - I'm bit thirsty after monthful of abstination! EDIT: I did vote option 4 after some consideration. __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 07-13-2005 at 07:51 AM.

07-12-2005, 12:43 AM	#14
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	How could I possibly cast a vote on only one of the first three options? They're so restrictive if each stands alone! I'm withholding so far, but I just might be ornery and vote for D if the mood strikes me... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'